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working for a UK employer whilst on the VWP

working for a UK employer whilst on the VWP

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Old Apr 1st 2002, 11:16 pm
  #1  
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dominicS is an unknown quantity at this point
Default working for a UK employer whilst on the VWP

Hi,

I work as a freelance designer. I can do my work anywhere I like as long as I can get connected to the internet. Would it be ok for me to visit the USA under the VWP and do work for my uk employers? I have just returned from a 2 month visit and would like to return as soon as possible. If i am asked how i can afford such long holidays Id like to explain that i was getting paid by my UK employers, and i was just out to enjoy the climate.

Do you think this explanation would be acceptable?

Does anyone know of cases where people have been refused re-entry to the usa on the vwp due to recent previous visits?

Dom
dominicS is offline  
Old Apr 2nd 2002, 5:35 am
  #2  
Ingo Pakleppa
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Default Re: working for a UK employer whilst on the VWP

On 2 Apr 2002 00:35:04 GMT, dominicS <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Hi,
    >
    >I work as a freelance designer. I can do my work anywhere I like as long as I can
    >get connected to the internet. Would it be ok for me to visit the USA under the VWP
    >and do work for my uk employers? I have just returned from a 2 month visit and would
    >like to return as soon as possible. If i am asked how i can afford such long
    >holidays Id like to explain that i was getting paid by my UK employers, and i was
    >just out to enjoy the climate.
    >
    >Do you think this explanation would be acceptable?

Probably not. This sounds an awful lot like immigration intent. Besides, since you
are a freelancer rather than a permanent employee, this would most likely be
considered working in the US, which is illegal (as a permanent employee, it would
still be borderline legal at best)

    >Does anyone know of cases where people have been refused re-entry to the usa on the
    >vwp due to recent previous visits?

This is quite common. Don't try it.

If you enjoy the climate that much, you may want to consider a couple other great
places to live and work, the US doesn't have a monopoly on
it. Consider Mexico (similar climate to Southern California), Tahiti, Australia, ...

Ingo

I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. For reliable advice, please consult
with a professional immigration attorney.

For further information, check the following frequently-requested links.

For many questions, you may find answers at
http://travel.state.gov/visa_services.html (Department of State)

or http://ins.usdoj.gov (INS).

For consular policies and visa reciprocity fees, find your consulate in
http://travel.state.gov/links.html

For DOL Faxback status information: http://workforcesecurity.doleta.gov/

For information on affidavit of support for marriage to US citizens (I-864), go to
http://travel.state.gov/i864gen.html and http://travel.state.gov/checklist.html

For information on entering the US as a K-1: http://www.k1poelist.com/

For poverty levels, see http://aspe.os.dhhs.gov/poverty/00poverty.htm

For information on H/L/O/P visa extensions at Dept. of State in St. Louis, MO, see
http://travel.state.gov/revals.html

For non-official information, check:

(When using these sites, and any Web sites, please watch out for privacy, as I do not
know all site operators.)

http://www.visalaw.com http://www.shusterman.com http://www.immigration.com
http://members.aol.com/MDUdall http://www.murthy.com/ http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
(dual citizenship FAQ) http://www.ilw.com/pederson/visa.htm (dual citizenship info)
http://www.srs-usvisa.com http://www.getusavisa.com
http://greencard-lottery.virtualave.net/ http://www.jcvisa.com (H-1B)
http://www.h1bresources.com (marriage and fiancee) http://www.kamya.com/misc/
(marriage and fiancee) http://www2.apex.net/users/thehydes http://www.formshome.com
http://www.workpermit.com

This is not an endorsement of any of these Web sites. I am not affiliated with any of
the Web site owners and do not receive nor accept payment in return for listing them,
and typically don't even know them.

(if believe you have a good immigration-related Web site and want your Web site
listed here, please e-mail me).
 
Old Apr 2nd 2002, 11:00 am
  #3  
Just Joined
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 12
dominicS is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: working for a UK employer whilst on the VWP

>Does anyone know of cases where people have been refused
re-entry to the usa on the vwp due to recent previous visits?

>>This is quite common. Don't try it.

I have read several contradictory things about this. Some people say its quite possible to make two 90 day trips in a row. My previous visit was 58 days in length. Do you think it would be unwise for me to try and return? Ive read Ingo stating that the rule of thumb is 90 days in each 12 months. If i went back for a month then i wont be breaking any rules and shouldnt have any problem getting back in even if the 90 days in 12 months rule is set in stone.

I'd be interested to hear from anybody that was actually turned away on arrival and what the circumstances of the refusal were.
dominicS is offline  
Old Apr 2nd 2002, 4:05 pm
  #4  
Brit
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: working for a UK employer whilst on the VWP

I managed to spend 5 months going in and out of US/Canada for 5 months on a road
trip. (Boston to Alaska and back again). At the entry back into USA in Seattle I was
given another 3 months and so stayed. I went to the UK and then returned after a
month (no questions asked) and have been here 3 months (nearly). This was post
September 11.

I tried going to Canada and returning but was given just until the original 3 months
stamp date and so now have to leave. This was at Boston airport. More questions were
asked - why had I spent so much time here, stressed that I had to leave etc.

I want to return asap from London but suspect that the changes now in place and the
tracking that is being done will make that impossible. the information that I can
find shows that its OK if you can prove residence and a job/college out of USA.
(payslips, letter from employer etc) I have also read that immigration officers are
stamping 1 month on the entry (rather than 3).

I can't give a real answer, I managed to get 90 days back to back at the Seattle
border crossing, but at Boston/Toronto airport could not.

"dominicS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > >Does anyone know of cases where people have been refused
    > re-entry to the usa on the vwp due to recent previous visits?
    >
    > >>This is quite common. Don't try it.
    >
    > I have read several contradictory things about this. Some people say its quite
    > possible to make two 90 day trips in a row. My previous visit was 58 days in
    > length. Do you think it would be unwise for me to try and return? Ive read Ingo
    > stating that the rule of thumb is 90 days in each 12 months. If i went back for a
    > month then i wont be breaking any rules and shouldnt have any problem getting back
    > in even if the 90 days in 12 months rule is set in stone.
    >
    > I'd be interested to hear from anybody that was actually turned away on arrival and
    > what the circumstances of the refusal were.
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
 
Old Apr 3rd 2002, 7:35 am
  #5  
Ingo Pakleppa
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: working for a UK employer whilst on the VWP

On 2 Apr 2002 13:35:51 GMT, dominicS <[email protected]> wrote:

    >>Does anyone know of cases where people have been refused
    >re-entry to the usa on the vwp due to recent previous visits?
    >
    >>>This is quite common. Don't try it.
    >
    >I have read several contradictory things about this. Some people say its quite
    >possible to make two 90 day trips in a row. My previous visit was 58 days in length.
    >Do you think it would be unwise for me to try and return? Ive read Ingo stating that
    >the rule of thumb is 90 days in each 12 months. If i went back for a month then i
    >wont be breaking any rules and shouldnt have any problem getting back in even if the
    >90 days in 12 months rule is set in stone.

Note that I said "rule of thumb" Basically, all this means is that if you travel more
frequently, chances of being denied admission are greatly increased - but not
guaranteed in any way. Also, this rule of thumb is not written into the law.

Basically, the only thing that INS is really interested in is "do you plan to
immigrate to the US" and "do you plan or need to work" - coming to the US more
frequently than these 90 days in a year could be an indication that you might really
be closer to immigrating than to being a bona fide tourist.

Plus, there are few people who can afford to take off six months at a stretch
without working.

    >I'd be interested to hear from anybody that was actually turned away on arrival and
    >what the circumstances of the refusal were.

I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. For reliable advice, please consult
with a professional immigration attorney.

For further information, check the following frequently-requested links.

For many questions, you may find answers at
http://travel.state.gov/visa_services.html (Department of State)

or http://ins.usdoj.gov (INS).

For consular policies and visa reciprocity fees, find your consulate in
http://travel.state.gov/links.html

For DOL Online Labor Certification: http://workforcesecurity.doleta.gov/

For information on affidavit of support for marriage to US citizens (I-864), go to
http://travel.state.gov/i864gen.html and http://travel.state.gov/checklist.html

For information on entering the US as a K-1: http://www.k1poelist.com/

For poverty levels, see http://aspe.os.dhhs.gov/poverty/00poverty.htm

For information on H/L/O/P visa extensions at Dept. of State in St. Louis, MO, see
http://travel.state.gov/revals.html

For non-official information, check:

(When using these sites, and any Web sites, please watch out for privacy, as I do not
know all site operators.)

http://www.visalaw.com http://www.shusterman.com http://www.immigration.com
http://members.aol.com/MDUdall http://www.murthy.com/ http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
(dual citizenship FAQ) http://www.ilw.com http://www.srs-usvisa.com
http://www.getusavisa.com http://greencard-lottery.virtualave.net/
http://www.jcvisa.com (H-1B) http://www.h1bresources.com (marriage and fiancee)
http://www.kamya.com/misc/ (marriage and fiancee)
http://www.mindspring.com/~docsteen/...o/visainfo.htm http://www.workpermit.com

This is not an endorsement of any of these Web sites. I am not affiliated with any of
the Web site owners and do not receive nor accept payment in return for listing them,
and typically don't even know them.

(if believe you have a good immigration-related Web site and want your Web site
listed here, please e-mail me).
 
Old Apr 3rd 2002, 2:12 pm
  #6  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 12
dominicS is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: working for a UK employer whilst on the VWP

thanks again for getting back to me. If i rephrase my first question could you tell me if what i describe is illegal.

I am a permanent employee of a UK based company. I want to visit the usa in order to research and develop new online casino games by travelling round the casinos and gathering ideas. My employer has given me 12 weeks to go and do this fieldwork. I have already been to the states for 8 weeks this year but I had to return to the UK for an urgent meeting with clients. I would now like to return and complete my research/development project for a further 4 weeks.

Does that sound legal? It sounds like a bona fide business trip to me.
dominicS is offline  
Old Apr 3rd 2002, 7:35 pm
  #7  
Stuart Brook
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: working for a UK employer whilst on the VWP

dominicS wrote:
    >
    > thanks again for getting back to me. If i rephrase my first question could you tell
    > me if what i describe is illegal.
    >
    > I am a permanent employee of a UK based company. I want to visit the usa in order
    > to research and develop new online casino games by travelling round the casinos and
    > gathering ideas. My employer has given me 12 weeks to go and do this fieldwork. I
    > have already been to the states for 8 weeks this year but I had to return to the UK
    > for an urgent meeting with clients. I would now like to return and complete my
    > research/development project for a further 4 weeks.
    >
    > Does that sound legal? It sounds like a bona fide business trip to me.

Do you intend to make these games available specifically to the US clients? If so,
this gets really questionable, and you should talk to a US imm. atty.
 
Old Apr 4th 2002, 10:46 am
  #8  
Just Joined
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 12
dominicS is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: working for a UK employer whilst on the VWP

no, there are no US clients. My UK employer wants to develop casino games and seeing the real thing first hand has given me lots of great ideas so far, thats why id like to go back and do more research. I wont be selling anything to or consulting for any US companies during my visit. I wont be paid any dollars by any US companies during my visit.

Legal?
dominicS is offline  
Old Apr 4th 2002, 3:35 pm
  #9  
Stuart Brook
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: working for a UK employer whilst on the VWP

There are no US clients ? An Internet casino program ? The INS is going to have a
hard time with that one if push comes to shove.

It's tough and I think you need a legal opinion from an imm. atty. who's well
experienced in work statuses. Many such situations are clear cut from the description
and therefore an "opinion" is not required and anyone can say without fear of
"practicing law" that a situation is probably legal or illegal. BUT where the
situation is not clear cut, to give an opinion you can take to the border is beyond
what one can legally do, which is why I think you need an atty.

Good luck! (And you in the casino game business - appropriate!)

Stuart

dominicS wrote:
    >
    > no, there are no US clients. My UK employer wants to develop casino games and
    > seeing the real thing first hand has given me lots of great ideas so far, thats why
    > id like to go back and do more research. I wont be selling anything to or
    > consulting for any US companies during my visit. I wont be paid any dollars by any
    > US companies during my visit.
    >
    > Legal?
    >
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
 
Old Apr 5th 2002, 6:05 pm
  #10  
Ingo Pakleppa
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: working for a UK employer whilst on the VWP

I would agree that this is a bona fide business trip because the primary development
work would be done in the UK. However, whether you can convince the INS of that is a
different matter. Note that there are two separate questions: is it legal? is one,
but the other is "will INS believe you?" is a different one. Unfortunately, with the
INS, you are presumed "guilty" unless you can prove your innocence.

I think a letter from your employer that states what you just posted here may
well help.

Ingo

On 3 Apr 2002 15:35:05 GMT, dominicS <[email protected]> wrote:

    >thanks again for getting back to me. If i rephrase my first question could you tell
    >me if what i describe is illegal.
    >
    >I am a permanent employee of a UK based company. I want to visit the usa in order to
    >research and develop new online casino games by travelling round the casinos and
    >gathering ideas. My employer has given me 12 weeks to go and do this fieldwork. I
    >have already been to the states for 8 weeks this year but I had to return to the UK
    >for an urgent meeting with clients. I would now like to return and complete my
    >research/development project for a further 4 weeks.
    >
    >Does that sound legal? It sounds like a bona fide business trip to me.
    >
    >
    >
    >--
    >Posted via http://britishexpats.com

I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. For reliable advice, please consult
with a professional immigration attorney.

For further information, check the following frequently-requested links.

For many questions, you may find answers at
http://travel.state.gov/visa_services.html (Department of State)

or http://ins.usdoj.gov (INS).

For consular policies and visa reciprocity fees, find your consulate in
http://travel.state.gov/links.html

For DOL Online Labor Certification: http://workforcesecurity.doleta.gov/

For information on affidavit of support for marriage to US citizens (I-864), go to
http://travel.state.gov/i864gen.html and http://travel.state.gov/checklist.html

For information on entering the US as a K-1: http://www.k1poelist.com/

For poverty levels, see http://aspe.os.dhhs.gov/poverty/00poverty.htm

For information on H/L/O/P visa extensions at Dept. of State in St. Louis, MO, see
http://travel.state.gov/revals.html

For non-official information, check:

(When using these sites, and any Web sites, please watch out for privacy, as I do not
know all site operators.)

http://www.visalaw.com http://www.shusterman.com http://www.immigration.com
http://members.aol.com/MDUdall http://www.murthy.com/ http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
(dual citizenship FAQ) http://www.ilw.com http://www.srs-usvisa.com
http://www.getusavisa.com http://greencard-lottery.virtualave.net/
http://www.jcvisa.com (H-1B) http://www.h1bresources.com (marriage and fiancee)
http://www.kamya.com/misc/ (marriage and fiancee)
http://www.mindspring.com/~docsteen/...o/visainfo.htm http://www.workpermit.com

This is not an endorsement of any of these Web sites. I am not affiliated with any of
the Web site owners and do not receive nor accept payment in return for listing them,
and typically don't even know them.

(if believe you have a good immigration-related Web site and want your Web site
listed here, please e-mail me).
 

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