Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

OK, as I turn 64 in the next 2 weeks I thought, I check my state pension in the UK as its the only pension I am entitled to apart from a paltry sum from the civil service (about £45 a month). Apparently, pensions for women changed in 2016 and I am not sure under the new rules that I qualify for anything. There is no longer a widow's pension (my DH will be here long after me, I suspect, so not really an issue).
So I signed up with the government gate way, got the required ID and then you are taken to another page where you are to provided 2 out of 3 items. A valid UK passport #, Credit reference questions For example, the year you took out a credit card or phone contract or NI drivers license. Obviously I could only answer one question as we haven't resided in the UK for more than 20 yrs! I did try my old postcode which came up with my old address but it came up with we cannot confirm your address.
Why allow me to sign up for an account, if its not intended for expats? They obviously knows expats are using it as they send a verification number to my phone. I did send a feed back form but that was send to the NI government office. When I replied to their answer they gave me exactly the same web address I had already used!
The good news it seems I can apply at 66, not the 66 plus so many months as before. My poor youngest sister has to work until she is 67 but at least, she will have a pension. I wonder if with this Covid episode, they will continue with the plans to raise the pension age to 68, given that life expectancy was going down even before the pandemic.

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

I went through this exact process just a few weeks ago and like you got stuck at the UK address part. I ended up speaking with someone at the National Insurance office back in the UK. They told me it was fine to use my last UK address (mine was from 9 years ago) and once I entered that, I was able to submit passport details and do the credit check and I was good to go. So I would try again and just use your last UK address from 20 years ago. Make sure your account is up to date with your current US mailing address so they can send you any paperwork required in the post. Are you going to pay your Class 2 voluntary contributions to make up your shortfall years to ensure a full pension?

ETA - if you still can't get signed up online, they were extremely helpful on the phone, she even offered to stay on the line while I entered passport details and did the credit check to make sure I got completed. Cost me $90 in call charges though!

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

$90 is 50+ hours on the phone even using a more expensive provider like skype… were you calling a premium line? I called:+44 191 203 7010

HMRC specifies has a non “local rate” normal landline number to call to save expensive call rates:

https://www.gov.uk/government/organi...n-uk-residents

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

I retried my old UK address and it still didn't work 😢 I think I have too many years to make voluntary contributions but if I can I will. I send more feedback via their rate this website. They were pretty quick replying to my last query even if wasn't that helpful. My bank card is registered with our US address but the site doesn't take zip code numbers. I think on reflection that is the issue.

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

Yes I definitely messed up, I think it was maybe an 0345 number. Will know better the next time!

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

Good to know. Thanks

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

Consider a call to a real person, I'm sure they will be able to help you get set up. Good luck.

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

How many years did you work in the UK and pay NIC's?

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

Worked full time for about 7 years in total (year before college, summer work and then 6 in civil service) and have about 11 yrs of Child Benefit credits

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

I think you have until April 2023 to backfill 2006 to 2016, PLUS you can always backfill the prior 6 years. You could therefore backfill up to 16 years. If you already have 18 years credits as posted above, and you backfill back to 2006, and you paid one or two more years going forward (2022 and 2023) then you would qualify for the full state pension. If you have to pay the Class 3 rate that will cost you quite a hefty amount, about $1,000 for each year you backfill but that will provision for about 250 pounds a year for every backfilled year, about $350 at current exchange rates rates, every year for the rest of your life, and it is indexed linked. That is probably the best return on investment you will ever get. If you qualify for Class 2 it will only cost about $200 for each year you backfill. Class 3 rates are a good deal, Class 2 rates are the deal of the century.

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

thanks for the info.

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

Tried that number and was redirected to another number. Been waiting for 10 mins now. Might give up.

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

if you give up after 10 mins you are never going to get anything with a government entity done… I have had calls on hold for 1h plus for an IRS department … I found calling very early in the morning worked better in the US at-least.

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

Trying a web line chat now but there is no way of knowing how long you will be waiting for as they put up this paragraph: All of our advisers are currently busy. When an adviser is available, a link saying ‘speak to an adviser’ will appear.

You do not need to keep refreshing the page, it will automatically update with a link

No indication on how long you have to wait.

Now I have filled in a form to see if I can get help this way. The number given to me by the only person I spoke to (on the number recommended by Tht) cost me $69 for no answer.

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

what are you calling from? A landline / cellphone ? You should not pay more than $0.03 a min maximum with skype, or any other VOIP provider…

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

Once you finally get your account setup, you might be very surprised at how many years you have according to their records! When I started this process a couple of years ago, I thought I only had 3, maybe 4 years of 'full time payments'. But when I got set up, my 'record' showed 8 full years! I had credits for time in school, and 'full year' credits for years where I worked part-time in the summer! For what its worth, I documented my 'journey' through this process in this thread:
https://britishexpats.com/forum/trai...ny-use-929554/

It would be worth it for the OP to set up a 'calling plan' JUST for this exercise, even if they don't currently have one. I was on hold for hours when I called HMRC last year, but FINALLY I got through and they were helpful.

Edit To Add:
Regarding your original comment:
I'm not fully understanding this bit. I was able to get set up using my Passport # and my NI number, I think. You mention "NI Drivers license". Do you know your NI number? I was able to dig mine up from somewhere.

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

On the subject of state pensions for widows can someone confirm that my American spouse will not be entitled to any part of my UK state pension if I die first? I am asking in the context of deciding whether to pay additional NI contributions to make up for missed years rather than put the money in a US 40! K which she would be able to access upon my death. My understanding is that the state pension terminates upon my death, and that no part is payable to my wife. Any confirmation or guidance would be appreciated. Thanks

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

That is correct.

My plan to mitigate that is to delay taking my US SS until age 70. My SS is more than double than that of my wife and delaying until age 70 makes a very big difference. Actuarially you get the same total amount if you take SS at 62 or 70 but the monthly payments are much higher the later you take it. When I die her SS will be bumped up to the value of my SS.

Before I stopped working I also did not pay NI voluntary contributions but put the money into our 401ks instead. I was very fortunate to be able to retire at age 55, as did my wife, and we were again fortunate enough to be able to afford voluntary contributions to bump up our OAPs.

The SS website has a good tool to allow you to see what your SS will be at various ages including the option to say “no payments into it after age x”. I attach an example from a retirement website I frequent.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...113bc0c7e.jpeg

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

Yes, the break even point is around 80 ie the average lifespan.

I've been an expat for over 30 years and I had no difficulty signing up to the UK Government gateway, but with these systems there are sometimes errors in some data fields so that a small set of people have issues. For example I was never able to sign into the state Obamacare site, I think it might have been a problem with me not having a middle name.

You can now make NICs via electronic bank transfer which makes things very easy, but you do need tp verify online as HMRC didn't send me a paper receipt last year. I'm paying Class 2 and have 36 years now. I only need 35 for full state pension, but they are so inexpensive that I keep paying just in case the Government move the goal posts again - who knows what will happen to NICs with the social care legislation that is being proposed.

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

...
You guys seem to be agreeing that 80 is the break even point, and I can now see that is the case when comparing 62 vs 70. But then I compared 62 and 66.66, and then 66.66 and 70, and get different break-even points.

For the latter (66.66 vs 70), my calcs came out at 84-ish. Let me share my calcs / method in case I'm wrong. Would appreciate any input.

First, I looked up what my monthly SS payment would be at 62 (early), 66 2/3rds (normal), 70 (late).
They came out at
$2,173/mo, $3,014/mo, and $3,818/mo respectively. That's $26,076, $36,168, and $45,816 respectively per year. (these are calcs I did in late 2019; I haven't updated them since).

This is a spreadsheet I built using the above figures. Three sets of columns, one each for the 62, 66.66, and 70 figures. The 'cumulative' column simply adds in the annual payment from the column to its left.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...4c512b8b75.png


The yellow highlights compare the two adjacent column sets (62 and 66.66, and 66.66 and 70). In the first comparison (62 vs 66.66), the break even point is roughly age 76, but in the second comparison (66.66 vs 70), the break even point is age 84. Focusing on this latter case, at age 84 I will have received $687k in both scenarios. After that point, I'm much better off with the '70' scenario, obviously - by age 90 I've received a total of $962k by waiting until 70, compared to $904k by starting at 66.66.

The green highlight compares first and last column sets (62 and 70) and there I do see the break even point at 80 - in both cases, I will have received a total of about $500k at age 80.

Is my approach/methodology correct? I think most people compare 66.66 vs 70, but I could be wrong.

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

I don’t really know what the exact crossover point is for an individual as I’m choosing 70 to take my SS as insurance for my younger fitter wife who will probably outlive me.

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

The decision as to when to take your SS is way more complex than the cumulative return at the age of death, and since none of us know when we will die (no matter how healthy we are) that is a crap shoot anyway,

You need to take into account your spouses SS situation, the impact that your SS will have on taxes, medicare rates, and WEP on a UK pension if you have one. All of this is a moot point if you need your SS, but if you don’t then you also have to consider the opportunity cost of being able to invest your SS proceeds if you take it early or the opportunity cost of liquidating investments to provide income if you take it later. There are many, many scenario’s and multiple what if’s in doing such an analysis. Enough to explode your brain if you do it thoroughly, and still have no definitive conclusion because there are pros and cons for whatever strategy you decide upon.

Unless you need your SS, or your life would be more fun with it, or you are concerned about using up your assets and leaving less to you heirs if you pass sooner than expected, or you have a spouse that has a significantly larger SS amount than you have then
I think that delaying as long as possible will work for most of us. Ultimately, I suspect that we will reach 70 and we will be forced into taking it, or there will come a day when it will be clear that life will be easier with it than without.

Trying to maximize every last dollar that you collect from SS is impossible. My advice is take the money when you can enjoy it and still be comfortable.

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

What happens if you die before age 70 and you haven't taken your SS? Does your wife still get the amount you were going to get?

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

If I die before age 70 then she will receive the sum I was entitled to at time of death.

https://www.aarp.org/retirement/soci...ouse-dies.html

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

That's great! Thank you for taking the time to share your research.

Re: Women and Pensions plus government gateway
 

Very good information indeed, and I agree with pretty much everything you say. I wrote a whole paragraph discussing the very things you mentioned, like opportunity costs of the money, the fact that your 'own' money gets passed on to heirs while SS does not (other than spouse), and others, but decided to cut it to keep the discussion simple.

One extra factor to consider is RMDs - Required Minimum Distributions on IRAs. If you don't start using up your own IRA you can get hit with RMDs at age 72. My g/f ended up taking SS at 67 because her own IRA money is making such ridiculous returns at the moment, she would rather keep that money invested and use the SS money. However - her IRA is very healthy, and she's going to face big problems with 'RMD's when she hits 72, and not using her IRA now is going to exacerbate that.

These are, of course, 'good problems to have' and I never want to lose sight of that!