mattlmt

Ric Robson, who has substantial experience in group pensions, pension administration, pension plan design and legal constructs, has researched WEP and finds it illegal/unconstitutional as it has effectively blindsided Congress and converted FICA insurance premiums into a General Income tax ...

To quote Ric: "Any insurer (like the U.S. Federal Government & its Social Security Administration) that collects a defined contribution for a defined benefit, A BENEFIT THAT IT KNEW FROM THE OUTSET WOULD NOT BE PAID, must refund the overpayment of insurance premium , (as it does in the case of annual overpayments of FICA when one works two or more SSA covered jobs and exceeds the annual FICA premium) ...

... otherwise, the retention of insurance premiums for a benefit that the SSA knew would never be paid, constitutes insurer fraud...

AND, Alison Shelton, Congress Research Service, (THE organization that clarifies congressional legislation for agencies), states that WEP cannot apply to those covered by international Agreements on Pensions. PERIOD"

If you are interested in more information, please contact Ric directly at: [email protected]

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See the general WEP petition: http://signon.org/sign/social-securi...mt&r_by=695993

mattlmt

Here's update from Ric Robson that may help.
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1) the "substantial earnings" requirement is off-base by SSA on two points
i) the PURPOSE of Agreements on Pensions IS TO EQUATE AS SYNONYMOUS "social security" = ANY GOVT PENSION ... ie: "U.S. Social Security (in capitals !) in the case of U.S. and "Canada Pension" in the case of Canada, and "NI (?)" in the case of Britain, etc.
... the WEP legislation and definitions of "social security" ARE NOT CAPITALIZED in the U.S. legislation... THEREFORE ALL government pension time credits from ANY country with which the U.S. has an international Agreement on Pensions applies
ii) The SSA ADMITS that it's illegal to apply WEP to anyone covered by an Agreement on Pensions ... therefore they proceeded to concoct OTHER FORMULA that the SSA applies UNILATERALLY to foreign pensions (NOT TO U.S. pensions...) thereby creating a windfall for the SSA at the expense of another participating nations pension system
iii) many people PRESUME that FEDERAL REGULATIONS and SSA Policies are LAW ... THEY ARE NOT !!!!!! The SSA Commissioner is empowered by the U.S. President to put in place any policies and regulations that are deemed "reasonable" in the administration of the plan..

... and many folks are complaining about the "unfairness" of the SSA's procedures ... it's "unfair" for sure, but "whining" or "playing SSA's game" is NOT GOING TO RESULT IN A POSITIVE OUTCOME... The only chance for success is via the illegality of SSA's position w.r.t. international Agreements on Pensions ... AND the unconstitutionality of WEP in the first place (this latter argument involves about 1,500,000 non-migrant U.S. citizens where the international situation applies to about 500,000 ... a total of 2,000,000 people in all.

... THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE THE COMMISSIONER's ABSOLUTE VIOLATION OF LAW and or INTERNATIONAL Agreements on Pensions that the U.S. CONGRESS has entered into and obligated the U.S. Federal Government to abide.

IF YOU NEED MY HELP... Please contact me at [email protected] so that I can "funnel" all requests and not have to be checking dozens of e-threads from folks of countries all over the world...

Sally Redux

Thanks Matt, trying to become informed on this issue.

lansbury

Well bully for Ric Robson, who is he?

How does the SSA know a benefit will never be paid. My wife paid SS in the US until 1996. Up to that time even she didn't know she would come and live in the UK. So how could the SSA know it was collecting premiums on a benefit it might not pay out.

I don't like WEP anymore than anyone else, but that argument doesn't have much in any merit.