Why move to the US?
 

I have to say I always wonder why people are so keen on moving to the US.

I have a friend who lives in a developed country far away and she is all excited because it looks as though her visa is going to be approved and she'll be able to move to Los Angeles.

My response being, why? You have plenty of money, you earned it where you are, the place you live has decent weather - what's the point? How are you better off? "Oooh, the shops are better."

So you can live in a country with massive unemployment, crumbling infrastructure, epic debt levels, an overpriced healthcare "system" that is a mess, a lowly ranked education system, a dysfunctional government etc.

Heard of mail order?

Are people still naive enough to think it's going to be like Baywatch?

I can kind of understand it if you have friends or family there (which I do) or you've been offered some fantastic job but there seem to be an awful lot of people who just want to live there for an unspecific or rather trivial reason.

I blame American media for brainwashing everyone. I suppose living in Canada we get all the US national and local news too which puts the US in a more realistic light. But there is this thing called: "the web" nowadays.

Grass is greener on the other side syndrome.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

I'm going to stick my neck out slightly here. I think there are three (main) reasons people come on BE looking to move to America:

1) They believe that moving here will result in a better life and allow them to live the 'American Dream' (Whatever that is!) and look for any opportunity to come over

2) They've fallen in love with an American and want to move here to be together

3) Work has presented an opportunity they couldn't turn down to come and live in the US

I actually far prefer life here to life in the UK but the reasons why are not exactly simple. It's certainly a lot more expensive than it appears to be from the outside. I've often wondered from reading people's comments on here if people who come over for work (3) are happier than those that come for reasons (1) or (2) because it was completely in their control to move or not move and they were presumably presented a good offer to do so. Of course, it's never as simple as that and I'm not saying people shouldn't come for reason (2) or even (1) if they want to, I'm just curious if coming over to a good job relieves some of the stress and anxiety.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

For me the reason is exceedingly simple - I have fallen in love with an American. (2) from the list above - and this is the only way essentially to be together.

In terms of moving I have actually always fancied Canada and have a significant amount of Canadian relatives, and indeed spent some time growing up there.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

I think some people come for an adventure. If the opportunity of a move falls into your lap, like it did for us, if you don't give it a go, you would always think "what if?" We always said we would give it 1 year and go back if we didn't like it, at least we would have given it a go and if we had returned, been happy knowing that we had tried something different.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

The grass is just a different shade of green.

People come here for all sorts of reasons all of which, presumably, justify the decision to come for them.

I think most people realize that is most certainly not Baywatch or anything like it. You get up in the morning and, for the most part, you go to work; just like pretty much everyone else.

The big difference, for me, is when we get home, we spend most of our time outside, in the sunshine. That of itself, was not enough of a reason to come but it certainly helped the decision.

Another cold, wet, miserable winter in the UK or sunshine here? Another wet weekend stuck indoors or a day at the beach? Put those together with the other reasons to come and it was a no-brainer - which is good, according to my wife, as I have no brain. :)

Re: Why move to the US?
 

Because for me it was

never being told I could not do something I wanted to do

never being told I did not come from the right background (social class)

never again having to listen to the teacher laugh at my best friend when my friend said he wanted to become a commercial airline pilot

never being told I did not go the right school

never being told I missed my chance to get higher education

never being looked down upon because of my working class background

never having to listen to that tripe about one's station in life or lot

and so on, I could go on.

Mind you I have been in the USA for > 30 years and I suspect attitudes in the UK have changed some

Re: Why move to the US?
 

I must admit it's puzzling when people come on BE saying it's their lifelong dream to live in the US, even though they actually know nothing about it.

Can't really knock them though, we fell for the brilliant PR job the US does ourselves.

Some days it seems like the whole place is literally falling apart.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

This is true for me. I said that I couldn't turn down the opportunity because I'd have always have regretted not trying it.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

Pretty similar here, i've always liked the idea of living in Canada. But yeah, likewise I'd fall under category 2.

Although I dont mind living in England, the state of the country doesn't particularly inspire me either. That's not a 'it's going to the dogs' attitude, nor is it a 'the grass in America is soo much greener' one, it just happens that the situation of things here doesn't particularly inspire me, and the girl I love lives in America. If she was from Canada or Japan or somewhere else, I'd have given the same answer just with that country's name instead (although ive always liked the idea of Canada).

There's definitely things I prefer about the UK though, be good to be able to take the NHS, welfare and football with me!

Re: Why move to the US?
 

Absolutely spot on, and I've only been here 8 years.

And I'll add my own reasons:

- Getting paid a living wage to teach at a university and do research

- Getting to work with some of the cutting edge people in my field

- No one pigeonholing me because of my background

- No provincial or Middle England attitudes (depends where you live for this one probably)

- No dismissive or negative attitudes right out of the door

- A focus on community building

- The ability to reinvent oneself

- The entrepreneurial spirit

I've been caught up in all of the bad stuff that's happened because of the recession, and things aren't always easy. But I'm doing far better there than any of my UK friends in terms of job security, income, housing, and a stable community of people around me. I've done better here than I ever thought I would because I never thought I'd find a job or a life to keep me here permanently. I could see going back to the UK one day, but I moved here at such a young age that I just don't know whether I'd fit back in.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

Family. Married to a local.

In my times traveling, the USA merited a 12 hour stop over in New York (other than trips to what became family), so it was never high on my list of must-dos or want-to-sees. It just happened that I ended up here, no plan.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

I think both of the above list are horses for courses.

- right background/looked-down upon due to working class/one's station in life - the US looks down upon its own working class (blacks, white trash, southerners). This might not matter in a personal sense as they might not recognize your British working-classness. (I do think that this sounds more like the UK in the 1960's mind)

- paid a living wage to teach at Uni - my SIL and BIL both taught at US Uni's and 2 years ago moved back to the UK to teach - for nearly double the salary. Happens both ways.

- provincial or middle-England attitudes - not really sure exactly what this means, but my experience is that USCs are frequently more parochial.

What it often comes down to is a change in the expats mindset and chance to start from scratch - no different than immigrants moving to the UK.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

Good points.

I do now wonder if my husband did the right thing by giving up a tenured university position for one dependent on the grant income he can generate.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

That's is why I started with..

For me it was...

Re: Why move to the US?
 

Wife has extended family here, I would only come if it was to certain areas. Not Florida or somewhere in the boonies. Love and hate the northeast for various reasons. California is middling, plus sits nearly half way between the wife's immediate family and mine, 7000 miles in opposite directions, and direct flights to both. I had a good job in the UK but I'd floated immediately below director level for years and had enough of that.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

+1....

My wife and I were happy where we were. Both had professional jobs, a home, 2 cars, great friends and were loving Sydney.

We were travelling in 2010 and passed along my resume and landed a job i just could not refuse.

Honestly...everyone has their reasons to move. My view on this is, no matter where you are you will have issues with the lifestyle. You have to adjust. Constant comparisions will not help.

If you are mentally prepared then you wll be fine. Of course you need to take an informed decision ... and understand the differences between where you are and what you are getting into.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

I'm not in the category of "wanted to come to America".
I had/have friends who regularly came/come to NY/Orlando and other touristy destinations. I always declined to go with. I just didn't fancy it.

Then I randomly met a US lady. She was not going to emigrate to UK. Period. So on my first trip to see her in US it was time to decide. Me emigrate, or call it a day. I didn't want to call it a day, so I emigrated (K1- was the only viable option). I don't love it here especially, but when the marriage broke down, I made the choice to stay anyway.

I suppose I value the journey, rather than the destination. (I probably nicked that thought from some philosopher type!).

Re: Why move to the US?
 

We came, we saw, we conquered;) (someone else said that as well:))


Ours was an adventure because "we could" and it's been one hell of an adventure:nod:

Re: Why move to the US?
 

I often wonder why people wonder 'why?'

I have since I was a young adult and even my early teens had the 'anything is possible belief'
so I always counteract those kind of 'why?' questions with a 'Why not?'

theres a huge BIG WIDE WORLD out there and just because it suits some folks to stay cozy or 'play safe' with what they know for their rest of their lives. It doesnt suit others.

Depending on where you live, (we live in southern california) and are an extremely outgoing young family (im 35) with young children and the joy of being able to plan weekends ahead and barbeques instead of 'sorry kids we cant go outside again today because its raining:eek::eek::eek: is an absolute god send. So is being able to park in a parking lot here instead of having to drive round and round and round and round to find a spare parking space, because every where you go, whether its to your local store or supermarket (in England) it is so packed with people you literally cant park! or even move for that matter.

P.S I think also people hear a lot more about america (as you say through media) so thats probably another reason why people choose america, we have a lot of family who live in Aussie but for us its in the middle of nowhere I certainly didnt want Spain, Greece or Portugal!!

Re: Why move to the US?
 

1. Propaganda. Hollywood movies and TV shows and sitcoms are a powerful advertisement for the US. Sadly, they focus on tanned young people with lots of money and cool loft apartments, and not soup kitchens and piss poor healthcare.

2. Legacy. Despite the shocking, abominable healthcare in the US, its standard of living was very high compared to most countries through most of the 20th century. While this is no longer the case at all, the legacy continues to draw people towards the US.

3. Greed. People tend to think very highly of themselves - so while all the other people can't earn enough to get decent healthcare and a big house, I will be able to do so, so none of the downsides to US life will affect me. I don't care about anyone else, I just want US consumer prices and a convertible and low tax.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

Yes. The positive image presented is unparalleled. Yet (or thus) it is actually one of the harder developed countries to get into (at least for UKC's)

Re: Why move to the US?
 

It's at once the hardest and the easiest. If one works in a company that can transfer, has a specialist skill, a sibling or marries a USC then it's very easy indeed - easier than Australia where having family there counts for very little.

If one wants to get in without family or a pre-arranged job then it is very hard indeed. Typical US - land of extremes and polarity.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

I find that bit amusing, almost every TV program seems to have normal people living in houses/apartments that would be millionaire pads.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

Moving for point 2. Have to say though prior to meeting my wife I have no real desire to move anywhere premenantly, although had always wanted to see parts of the US - I personally had no desire to live there - then again I think Im fairly realistic about the potential it offers. My younger sister on the other hand has visited florida (and no where else) about 4 or 5 times and believes its the best place ever....she also is of the impression that the UK on its last legs! Have tried to convince her that 1. Florida is a old folks retirement home + mickey mouse (no offence any floridians...Ive not been myself,but you can not have a view on the states based soley on one state!) and that 2. going to work every day still involves going to work every day. She will not listen. So she will have to wait 15years or so until she can potentially get a visa on the basis of her relationship to me to find out! Maybe she'll have reappraised by then!

Re: Why move to the US?
 

I can think of plenty of reasons why I like the US but they would be reasons to visit rather than actually live in the country. Bottom line is that I'm here because my wife is from here, not because I am chasing the American dream or anything like that. I wouldn't have left the UK for any other reason - someone who is born in a particular country absorbs the culture and customs of that nation. As a result moving to a different country is a difficult process - you can feel very torn between your adopted home and 'the old country' where your roots are. It's not - in my opinion something to be undertaken lightly and especially not because you think the weather is better or the shops have flashier stuff in them.

That said:

Massive unemployment - Depends what you mean by 'massive' & I think you have to put it into context. These are obviously the worst economic times since the Great Depression and certain countries are doing better than others. Canada has an unemployment rate of around 7.2% and the UK's is 8.1% which is marginally better than the US on 8.3% (although there is significant regional variation - here in MA it's 6.1%). This is significant unemployment but look at what is happening in Europe. The Spanish unemployment rate is now 25.1% of the workforce and rising, France is 10.3%, Greece 24.4%; across the Eurozone it's 11.4%. All these figures are obviously fudged and tend to under-report but they help put matters into context - you can use different measures (e.g OECD) and get similar results.

Epic debt levels - The debt is massive and Canada's finances are in better shape. It exploded because we had a crisis that required large fiscal support for the economy. What does a basket case debter country look like though ? The two key measures are going to be debt to gdp levels and what the interest is like on the debt (also what the term of maturity is on that debt). The U.S now has a debt to GDP ratio of about 70% however the interest paid on that debt is at historically low levels. The UK's ratio is at a similar level (something like 80%) but again, our cost of borrowing is at an all time low. Spain is also at a similar level but it qualifies as a basket case because its banking sector and economy are still in serious trouble - as a result the borrowing costs are through the roof. Italy and Portugal are in a similar situation and Greece is screwed.

So yes the debt is a problem but it isn't as much of a problem as people make out. That is why the GOP have positioned themselves as 'deficit hawks' - yet their economic strategy will massively increase the debt & deficit; in other words they don't really care about the debt - as in the UK it just makes for a nice excuse to bash the public sector.

Overpriced healthcare system - yep can't argue with that one!. Dis-functional government - yep - though Canada - although a very well run country - has it's issues there too Quebec separatism appears to be resurgent.

Education - The idea that the US education system is total disaster is a myth concocted for political purposes. Liberals push it because it justifies self-aggrandizing reforms and tinkering. Conservative push it for union bashing and because they are keen on things like Charter schools.

As far as I can tell there is only one reputable measure for comparing school systems worldwide and that is the OECD PISA survey. Obviously the fact that it's one limited survey should be cause for skepticism - sampling bias etc... In any event the OECD figures show the States in at 14th or 17th in the rankings depending on what measures you are comparing. Is that lowly? No, it's above the OECD average and although it's below Canada, Iceland, Finland, Korea etc, it's above such 'lowly' systems as Germany, Ireland, France and the UK. Furthermore the scores awarded are actually pretty close so there isn't a vast difference between the top ranked countries.

Crumbling infrastructure - Most people will tell you the country is falling apart and is essentially third world. The infrastructure of the country now ranks behind Barbados and Malaysia. However, the infrastructure of the US covers 3.1 million square miles and takes an absolute pounding from the weather. A fair comparison has to be with the larger countries and when you do that the US ranks only behind Canada (which is more lightly populated).

Re: Why move to the US?
 

For me personally it wasn't a difficult decision.

Worked for a company in the uk, made myself indispensable, the company closed as the us parent wanted to re-align overseas investments.

I was made an offer 3 times what I used to earn in the uk and offered promotion. There's no way I'd earn anywhere near that if I stayed. I'm 30 now so I'm just pushing into management positions, in my field it's not easy to get to the management level.

This gave me that opportunity, will make me much better off financially, and give me a new experience, plus I already know and like the people i'll be working with, in my opinion they have really looked after me well.

It was a fluid situation that I decided to go with, not sure I'd ever plan to move anywhere like some people seem to based on ideals and hearsay.

Worst case is we hate it and I book some flights back to the uk!

Re: Why move to the US?
 

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012/...ks-up-to-14-9/

Really it's more like 15% because the 8% figure doesn't include those who are not looking for work but say they have recently looked, which is straight unemployed by anyone's definition. Part of the problem is that the neoliberal economics which gave us deregulated banking and massive offshoring of jobs has meant that the US has lost 50,000 manufacturing jobs per month since 2001 when China joined the WTO.

The unemployment will continue to rise and nothing can stop it except what stopped it in the 1930s.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

You live in Canada so let's compare that to the US for the sake of argument.

I lived in Canada for 7 years and have lived in the US for the last 14 years. I travel between the 2 countries frequently. There are pros and cons to both. - a subjective list that will vary from person to person. Even the views of the same person can vary as they age and/or their circumstances change.

Cost of living - both are big countries and there are regional variations but in general I have found the cost of living to be higher in Canada. Higher prices (even before tax), higher sales taxes, higher income taxes. In my field at least, salaries in Canada are also lower which just exacerbates the cost of living issue.

Healthcare - Yes, Canada has universal healthcare (not free - remember it's paid for by those higher taxes) but access is often an issue (e.g. shortage of family doctors, referrals, waiting lists, etc.) Healthcare in the US is great IF you have access to it - it's the health INSURANCE mess that is the biggest problem (red tape, no coverage, etc).

Immigration - I think Canada has done a better job of creating a "melting pot". I don't see the same level of integration within the US. Canada also has done a better job of making sure that immigration is mostly skills-based. In the US, most immigration is still family-based (unifying family members who don't necessarily have the skills the economy needs.) I think this along with massive levels of illegal immigration has helped create the larger gap we see between rich and poor in the US.

Education - don't see much of a difference here. Canada has been ranked higher by the OECD on the performance of 15 year olds in math, science and reading but it's hardly a massive difference overall. The US has higher ranked universities.

Other - there's a long list of others reasons why someone who have a preference for a particular country e.g. weather, geography, politics, interests (not many surfers would prefer Canada over the US), etc. The US does have a much more varied climate and geography.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

Because they liked Disneyworld :D

Re: Why move to the US?
 

I don't agree. I think a lot of US TV and movies have shown the grim side of life in the US - gangs, guns, violence, drugs, poverty, crime, etc. In fact, many have magnified reality and glorified it just to gain an audience.

US healthcare is great if you have access to it. It's health INSURANCE that is the real issue - billions wasted in red tape and inefficiency and still there are people without any coverage at all. I happen to be lucky enough to have a decent health insurance plan and I can see top doctors at very short notice which is better than anything I experienced in the UK or Canada. Of course someone without coverage won't think the US system is better than the one in the UK or Canada. More of that polarity you mentioned elsewhere.

I pretty much agree with this. Those people are called Republicans and will be voting for Mitt The Twit!

Re: Why move to the US?
 

Point taken.

Ah, but what a private insurance company gives, it can just as easily take away.


!

Heaven help us all. Surely Obama must secure a second term!

Re: Why move to the US?
 

I tend to agree with you, except that the massive unemployment was really only stopped in the 1940s when the rest of the world conveniently blew each other to bits, leaving us as the last source of goods standing.

Several Republicans have noticed this, and attempted to re-create it by unilaterally blowing other countries to bits.... but not nearly enough to help the country - only their cronies who got contracts to rebuild.

Then again, the job loss from all developed countries is horrific. With already high debt levels, can all the developed nations do a WPA/CCC?

Re: Why move to the US?
 

That's absolutely true - it's the U-6 rate in the U.S which is 15.3 percent. That includes people not in the labor force, but want and are available for work and had looked for a job in the prior year. The measures that are used are a real problem.

In the UK they had this argument back in February because the U6 unemployment methodology isn't used there. The TUC made an attempt at calculating it and they determined the real unemployment rate is something like 6.3 million if you apply U6. I think that's about 21.7% - which sounds too high to me - U6 is usually around 1.8 * U3 (the headline figure).

I have heard that the Spanish unemployment rate might not be as bad as made out because people have a tendency to claim jobless benefits even when they are working and there is a significant black market economy. No idea if that's true or not or what that does to the overall rate.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

It's true, and it cuts into tax revenues. Which is why governments are concerned about unemployment rates.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

These are reasons to leave the UK, not necessarily reasons to move to the US although 30 years ago the US wasn't such a mess.

Frankly I find class distinctions to be growing quite profound in the US, not in the UK sense but definitely social mobility is limited. The rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

I suspect that for many of the people who do not neatly fit into the love, job or investment categories there is some underlying personal issue which they believe can be solved by simply moving (aka running away from the problem). Sadly they will usually end up realizing that the problem will follow them where ever they go unless they seek help to fix the problem first. All these comments regarding the things they don't like about the UK are more likely symptoms of the underlying issue (such as depression) rather than deep felt feelings about the UK itself.

Amateur psychology 101.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

I don't know about that. 30 years ago was 1982...

The US economy was still feeling the effects of high oil prices after the Iranian revolution and sharp interest rate increases. Home sales plummeted. The industrial base was decaying (which led to the rise of the Sun belt). Unemployment was above 10%. To cap it all off Reagan was in charge.

The music was good though - Thriller, Marvin Gaye, Rocking the Casbah. Shame I was a year old at the time.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

I wouldn't say play it safe necessarily, but you should have some logical reason, I have logical reasons why it would make sense for me to move there, i.e. family and friends and the weather isn't so bad during the winter. But logically when I look at it, I'd pay way more for healthcare (on the order of thousands of percent) and also the govt. there is highly dysfunctional. They can't even agree on getting rid of the $1 bill.

It's not as if Canada is some fantastically better place either, it's not like the govt. are miracle workers, it's just that it's not badly run. I read some survey that said compared to the EU the Canadian healthcare system would rank near the bottom, but imx it's a heck of a lot better than in the US and I have a lot of experience.

Here is one example - in Canada the postal service is only subsidized by the govt. slightly, basically to provide service to remote areas. In the US, the USPS is subsidized by getting cheap US treasury loans. You get enormous amounts of junk mail, but the service is relatively quick, cheap and you have Saturday delivery unlike Canada.

In Canada also if you buy something from another jurisdiction, you have to pay your local sales tax on it, you can't avoid it like you can in the US by buying from another State.

As a result, companies like Amazon don't do so well here. Amazon is effectively subsidized by the US Govt. giving loans to USPS. This causes problems for retailers. In Canada, people go to the shops, it's quicker and cheaper (because you can't avoid the sales tax, so Amazon cannot subsidize the postage). In the US your taxes effectively subsidize the delivery of junk mail.

The US Govt. could simply pull the rug out from USPS, but will that ever happen, no because of endless lobbying from so and so about Saturday delivery, so instead there is some half ass measure that saves only a small amount of money and doesn't solve the problem.

And that is exactly what happens on US public policy issues all the time, whatever it is.

It's just this never ending general ineptness about everything that makes me wonder what the appeal of the place is nowadays. Basically there is a lobby for everything because the population is so large and people in Congress need so much money for their campaigns there is total gridlock.

Immigration laws being another perfect example, QED.

Where is it all going to end?

Re: Why move to the US?
 

I think a lot of Brits are actually quite sheltered and think they have it incredibly tough in the UK.

Re: Why move to the US?
 

Agreed, but I guess it doesn't really seem like it until you move somewhere else that doesn't have the welfare and NHS backup that exists in the UK. You don't know how good you have it until it's gone!