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When don't you need a Visa to Earn Money in the US

When don't you need a Visa to Earn Money in the US

Old Apr 8th 2015, 3:52 am
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Default When don't you need a Visa to Earn Money in the US

When don't you need a Visa to Earn Money in the US or other countries?

There is probably a of lot Grey Areas here and good Point for Discussion.
I am not saying these people definitely don't need a work Visa or do need one
just ways people have earned in the US with out one and at what Point do they need one ?

Poker
Many Tourists every year come to Vegas to play most of them lose but a few make money as a professional. I think this could be the only non-grey area in terms of not Needing a Visa. this could be tricky when it comes to Taxes and if it is your only source of Income and you spend 5 Months in the US every year Playing Poker are you ever going to need a Visa ?

Photos? Video - Someone Takes Photos or Video in the US and is able to sell them for a Profit. At what Point do they need a Visa to Sell those Photos. If they come as Tourists.


Blogger - Someone keeps a Blog of there travels around the world. they Get sponsored and/or have Advertising on the Blog. Is this A requirement for Visa.
many people do this with out any Visa.

Youtube Channels - there is many people running youtube channels as there income now should they need a Visa if they they head to US. there is Many Brits on youtube in the states. If there earning should they need Visa for this.

If you Film Holiday Video and you happen to upload it and make money off of it how would they classify this. ?

Author - For instance your a Published Author. and Writing a Book as your Traveling or Staying in the states. there is no way needing a visa can be enforced for fiction Novels ?

Music - to Perform music in the US you definitely need a Visa.
But if you go to the US to Record as band or Artist etc you don't
So you spend 5 Months in the US and Record music and then sell your Music.

Freelance working any work that can be done completed remotely(website design, Translators etc) - This is a very Grey topic there is lot of work you technically need some sort of work Visa but there is no way to enforce some of it. There are many freelancers working in the US when yes they need a Visa but as it is all done remotely they pretty much not going to get caught short of Admitting to it when arriving. a Graphic Designer on a Beach in Hawaii for instance for a few weeks. T

In some cases just checking your work Emails can be problem and be considered needing a work permit.


Not planning on earning like this just curious thoughts on these issues. As it is not always black and white.
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Old Apr 8th 2015, 4:45 am
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Default Re: When don't you need a Visa to Earn Money in the US

There are many interesting cases that have gone through the courts that have set different tests for defining what is and isn't work. If you are that interested, I suggest you look them up.

What you are actually asking is "will I [the royal, hypothetical, I'm not trying to earn, I] get away with it?".
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Old Apr 8th 2015, 10:55 am
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Default Re: When don't you need a Visa to Earn Money in the US

Very few of those, if any are grey areas. The question is only "how long before you're caught?" A few photos while you're on holiday is one thing but months of taking photos, enough to make a living, is another matter.
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Old Apr 8th 2015, 1:32 pm
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Default Re: When don't you need a Visa to Earn Money in the US

Everything is actually black and white. There are no grey areas. If you do something that you (or someone else) would normally get paid for, you need a visa. That includes coming over to record, so I'm not sure where you got the idea that no visa was needed for it!

Sure, some things are morally policed and virtually impossible to enforce, but illegal regardless.

However, just as you probably would be waved through customs if you had an extra bottle of booze over the allowance, some things are not worth prosecuting or worrying about, but that's really not for us to decide. The advice you'll get from ANYONE on this board is "don't risk it".

After all, the penalty for getting caught is anything up to and including a lifetime ban from ever entering the States again.

On a personal note, there should be some kind of penalty for adding random capital letters to the middle of a sentence, too. It's almost (but not quite) as bad as those who post with no capitalization or punctuation!
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Old Apr 8th 2015, 1:36 pm
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Default Re: When don't you need a Visa to Earn Money in the US

Originally Posted by Guindalf View Post
..... After all, the penalty for getting caught is anything up to and including a lifetime ban from ever entering the States again. .....
Plus some painful correspondence with the IRS.
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Old Apr 8th 2015, 1:39 pm
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Default Re: When don't you need a Visa to Earn Money in the US

Originally Posted by Guindalf View Post
On a personal note, there should be some kind of penalty for adding random capital letters to the middle of a sentence, too.
Quite normal back in the day though. Ever looked at the original text of the US Constitution?
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Old Apr 8th 2015, 3:18 pm
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Default Re: When don't you need a Visa to Earn Money in the US

Originally Posted by Guindalf View Post
Everything is actually black and white. There are no grey areas. If you do something that you (or someone else) would normally get paid for, you need a visa. That includes coming over to record, so I'm not sure where you got the idea that no visa was needed for it!

Sure, some things are morally policed and virtually impossible to enforce, but illegal regardless.

However, just as you probably would be waved through customs if you had an extra bottle of booze over the allowance, some things are not worth prosecuting or worrying about, but that's really not for us to decide. The advice you'll get from ANYONE on this board is "don't risk it".

After all, the penalty for getting caught is anything up to and including a lifetime ban from ever entering the States again.

On a personal note, there should be some kind of penalty for adding random capital letters to the middle of a sentence, too. It's almost (but not quite) as bad as those who post with no capitalization or punctuation!

I Think there is a lot more things to worry about because someone sold a few holiday snaps that they took while they where on Holiday.

What if you are recording, not performing?
Professional musicians may enter the US on the VWP to record, but only if the recording will not be distributed or sold within the US and no public performances are given during the visit. This means that if musicians are laying down recordings that will be distributed and sold throughout the world excluding the US, VWP travel is acceptable. If the recordings will be distributed and sold in the US to any extent, then the musicians will need valid work authorised visas. Again the required visa type will typically be O or P visa, depending on the facts.


and what about Poker ?

also this
. According to the U.S. Department of State rules for visitors, "an artist coming to the United States to paint, sculpt, etc. who is not under contract with a U.S. employer and who does not intend to regularly sell such art-work in the United States" is not engaged in "employment."

Also How many Paintings would you need to sell for it to be considered Regular ? it also says in the United States so if you go home to sell it etc ?

Last edited by jayoel; Apr 8th 2015 at 3:36 pm.
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Old Apr 8th 2015, 3:33 pm
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Old Apr 8th 2015, 4:00 pm
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Default Re: When don't you need a Visa to Earn Money in the US

Joel,

When quoting a source, please provide a link to it as well.

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Old Apr 8th 2015, 4:26 pm
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Default Re: When don't you need a Visa to Earn Money in the US

Originally Posted by Guindalf View Post

On a personal note, there should be some kind of penalty for adding random capital letters to the middle of a sentence, too. It's almost (but not quite) as bad as those who post with no capitalization or punctuation!
This
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Old Apr 8th 2015, 5:00 pm
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Default Re: When don't you need a Visa to Earn Money in the US

My apologies, but my inner pedant can no longer resist . It's:

Their, and you're.

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Old Apr 8th 2015, 6:15 pm
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Default Re: When don't you need a Visa to Earn Money in the US

Originally Posted by jayoel View Post
I Think there is a lot more things to worry about because someone sold a few holiday snaps that they took while they where on Holiday.
Nobody buys holiday snaps.

Originally Posted by jayoel View Post
What if you are recording, not performing?
Professional musicians may enter the US on the VWP to record, but only if the recording will not be distributed or sold within the US and no public performances are given during the visit. This means that if musicians are laying down recordings that will be distributed and sold throughout the world excluding the US, VWP travel is acceptable. If the recordings will be distributed and sold in the US to any extent, then the musicians will need valid work authorised visas. Again the required visa type will typically be O or P visa, depending on the facts.
So, pretty clear cut.
Originally Posted by jayoel View Post
also this
. According to the U.S. Department of State rules for visitors, "an artist coming to the United States to paint, sculpt, etc. who is not under contract with a U.S. employer and who does not intend to regularly sell such art-work in the United States" is not engaged in "employment."

Also How many Paintings would you need to sell for it to be considered Regular ?
Ok, so maybe a little less obvious. But I did once see a guy denied entry on what would have been his first trip because he admitted he was going to sell two paintings while he was here. Do you want to play that game?
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Old Apr 8th 2015, 7:26 pm
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Default Re: When don't you need a Visa to Earn Money in the US

Originally Posted by jayoel View Post
I Think there is a lot more things to worry about because someone sold a few holiday snaps that they took while they where on Holiday.

~
Who's worrying? You brought the subject up!

Anyway, here's nothing to discuss until we see evidence/references/links.
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Old Apr 8th 2015, 9:52 pm
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Default Re: When don't you need a Visa to Earn Money in the US

Foreign Persons

Payments of gambling winnings to a nonresident alien individual or a foreign entity are not subject to reporting or withholding on Form W-2G. Generally, gambling winnings paid to a foreign person are subject to 30% withholding under sections 1441(a) and 1442(a) and are reportable on Form 1042, Annual Withholding Tax Return for U.S. Source Income of Foreign Persons, and Form 1042-S, Foreign Person's U.S. Source Income Subject to Withholding. Winnings of a nonresident alien from blackjack, baccarat, craps, roulette, big-6 wheel, or a live dog or horse race in the United States from legal wagers initiated outside the United States in a parimutuel pool are not subject to withholding or reporting. See Pub. 515, Withholding of Tax on Nonresident Aliens and Foreign Entities.

Instructions for Forms W-2G and 5754 (2015)
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Old Apr 9th 2015, 3:18 am
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Default Re: When don't you need a Visa to Earn Money in the US

Hypothetically....
if say a landscape architect comes to the USA, has a few business meetings, takes a few photos and measurements and then returns to say EU where garden plans are drawn up and emailed to client. Client pays professional in EU for plans... Is that legit?
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