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what do you guys think....?

what do you guys think....?

Old Apr 19th 2002, 6:23 pm
  #1  
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Default what do you guys think....?

hello, guys! you may already have read this post in the Canadian immigration site--if so, please accept my apologies. reason why i am posting the same query on this site is to see what you guys in the usa can advise me, as most of the questions are relevant to the usa too, so here goes :

"hi, all!
i am in a bit of a dilemma--i have already applied for canadian immigration and my interview is due in the next few months (which should go ok, as i had more than the necessary points), but now i keep hearing from a lot of people that why go to canada, the US is much better economy/lifestyle wise......viz :

1) also, i assumed that there is free healthcare for all in canada, but someone told me that no, there is no social healthcare program in place in canada, you are covered by a form of medical insurance provided by the company you work for (just as in usa), and even then, when you pay out for medicines and you put in a claim to your insurance provider, you only get a certain percentage back!!
2) another software guy who works in toronto and is on a short contract there from the uk, says they work people like dogs there and its mostly work,work,work but very little play, compared to the UK, where he was relatively at ease and not that much pressured
3) the taxes are very much higher in canada than the US also.
4) and is it true that if you get fired in the usa, you get no financial aid whatsoever and you are left to cope on your own?

so, what i am asking you guys is this--why go to canada if the same kind of health care is prevalent as in the US and its a weaker economy? after all, the same hire'n'fire mentality exists in canada as well as the US. i mean, you may as well go to the US, pay for your own medical insurance and get the best service, be more well of as the wages are higher in the US, and pay little or no sales tax/income tax (depending on state) ?

i know i have commited myself by paying out over C$4000 by applying for immigration there, but am now wondering if i did the right thing !! or should i forget it all and stay in england !!!!?
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Old Apr 19th 2002, 7:33 pm
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Default Re: what do you guys think....?

Originally posted by scarlet
hello, guys! you may already have read this post in the Canadian immigration site--if so, please accept my apologies. reason why i am posting the same query on this site is to see what you guys in the usa can advise me, as most of the questions are relevant to the usa too, so here goes :

"hi, all!
i am in a bit of a dilemma--i have already applied for canadian immigration and my interview is due in the next few months (which should go ok, as i had more than the necessary points), but now i keep hearing from a lot of people that why go to canada, the US is much better economy/lifestyle wise......viz :

1) also, i assumed that there is free healthcare for all in canada, but someone told me that no, there is no social healthcare program in place in canada, you are covered by a form of medical insurance provided by the company you work for (just as in usa), and even then, when you pay out for medicines and you put in a claim to your insurance provider, you only get a certain percentage back!!



*Don't know the truth in that statement. My Canadian husband only had a healthcare issued by the Ontario government and that covered all health costs, prescriptions, glasses, dental, etc.




2) another software guy who works in toronto and is on a short contract there from the uk, says they work people like dogs there and its mostly work,work,work but very little play, compared to the UK, where he was relatively at ease and not that much pressured


*Yes Canadians do not enjoy the same long vacation time allocated in most European countries. You are entitled to two weeks normally plus legal holidays. And work is for work. If you want to play you do that on your on time. The same goes for the US as well. I am a USC by birth and the normal vacation time is two weeks (some fields 3 weeks) and five sick/personal days per year. The US employer does not tolerate slackoffs either so if you are planning on playing while your work ... stay in Europe then.

3) the taxes are very much higher in canada than the US also.
4) and is it true that if you get fired in the usa, you get no financial aid whatsoever and you are left to cope on your own?

*Yes Canadian taxes are high. But if you add the federal, state, in some areas, city taxes together they are as high as, if not higher than, Canadian taxes. And that is not counting State Sale Taxes. Where I live that along is 8.25% of purchases other than food products.


so, what i am asking you guys is this--why go to canada if the same kind of health care is prevalent as in the US and its a weaker economy?

*Canada provides a way of life outside of its city limits that is virtually unknown these days in the US. It is a gentler way of life with more open spaces and a large diverse culture.



after all, the same hire'n'fire mentality exists in canada as well as the US. i mean, you may as well go to the US, pay for your own medical insurance and get the best service, be more well of as the wages are higher in the US, and pay little or no sales tax/income tax (depending on state) ?

*You could well end up in the 33% tax bracket federally. If the state does not have a tax, then you will find the state sales tax is outrageous. They have to pay for the maintenance of roads, services, etc. in some manner.


Why the hell would you commit yourself to migrating to a foreign country without having the full details? Doesn't sound like you have your oars in the water my friend. Besides there is no open immigration to the US. You have to be work based or family based or claim refugee status. Don't know if INS will let you into the US like they let refugee's into Canada ... for Canada you get on the plane and flush the documents down the toilet and you are in.

Rita

I know i have commited myself by paying out over C$4000 by applying for immigration there, but am now wondering if i did the right thing !! or should i forget it all and stay in england !!!!?
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Old Apr 19th 2002, 9:30 pm
  #3  
Ks
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Default Re: what do you guys think....?

Scarlet:

First of all, I dont have any first-hand knowledge about Canadian immigration (or
jobs situation in Canada) but my opinions are based on experiences of my friends and
things I read on the net. There are several points to consider:

1. First of all, immigrating to the US is lot more involved than to Canada. The most
common routes are to be sponsored by (a) a US employer or (b) a close relative
(spouse, parent, children etc.). The are other avenues (like the lottery, investor
category etc.) but I would ignore them here. So you do need a job offer in the US
(that qualifies for an H1 visa TEST so flipping burgers in McD are out ) and the
employer must be willing to sponsor you. For exceptionally qualified people,
self-petitioning is possible, but the standards are much higher than what Canadian
immigration (the "necessary points" you mentioned) would require IMO.
Alternatively, you need a close family member who is a US citizen (or a spouse who
is a PR) who can sponsor (there are specific restrictions here as well). Even with
all this, we are talking of a long drawn out process or 2-3 years at the very
minimum (unless you have a US citizen spouse).

2. Workload wise, it is equally bad in the US, if not worse. Of course there is a
large variation depending on your specific job situation and/or employer to make
any generalizations of this nature. So I wouldn't base my decision on this
factor at all.

3. I dont know about tax rates in Canada but you can get most of that info. from the
web. Remember that very few states (6 or 7 I guess) have no state income tax. But
the bulk of the tax is paid to the federal govt. (including Social security,
medicare).

4. If you are PR, I believe you do qualify for unemployment benefits in the US. These
are given by individual states but I dont think they pay a lot. Enough for
subsistence maybe but not a princely sum by any standards TEST I believe these
benefits are much higher and paid for a much longer term in Canada.

Finally, all I would say is that if you can manage to immigrate to the US, do so but
bear in mind that for most people, it is a long process and except for some
categories, there are no guarantees that you would eventually get a PR some day.

Goodluck KS

"scarlet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > hello, guys! you may already have read this post in the Canadian immigration
    > site--if so, please accept my apologies. reason why i am posting the same query on
    > this site is to see what you guys in the usa can advise me, as most of the
    > questions are relevant to the usa too, so here goes :
    >
    > "hi, all! i am in a bit of a dilemma--i have already applied for canadian
    > immigration and my interview is due in the next few months (which should go ok, as
    > i had more than the necessary points), but now i keep hearing from a lot of people
    > that why go to canada, the US is much better economy/lifestyle wise......viz :
    >
    > 1) also, i assumed that there is free healthcare for all in canada, but someone
    > told me that no, there is no social healthcare program in place in canada, you
    > are covered by a form of medical insurance provided by the company you work for
    > (just as in usa), and even then, when you pay out for medicines and you put in a
    > claim to your insurance provider, you only get a certain percentage back!!
    > 2) another software guy who works in toronto and is on a short contract there from
    > the uk, says they work people like dogs there and its mostly work,work,work but
    > very little play, compared to the UK, where he was relatively at ease and not
    > that much pressured
    > 3) the taxes are very much higher in canada than the US also.
    > 4) and is it true that if you get fired in the usa, you get no financial aid
    > whatsoever and you are left to cope on your own?
    >
    > so, what i am asking you guys is this--why go to canada if the same kind of health
    > care is prevalent as in the US and its a weaker economy? after all, the same
    > hire'n'fire mentality exists in canada as well as the US. i mean, you may as well
    > go to the US, pay for your own medical insurance and get the best service, be more
    > well of as the wages are higher in the US, and pay little or no sales tax/income
    > tax (depending on state) ?
    >
    > i know i have commited myself by paying out over C$4000 by applying for immigration
    > there, but am now wondering if i did the right thing !! or should i forget it all
    > and stay in england !!!!?
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
 
Old Apr 20th 2002, 6:00 pm
  #4  
Chris Moorehead
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: what do you guys think....?

scarlet <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > hello, guys! you may already have read this post in the Canadian immigration
    > site--if so, please accept my apologies. reason why i am posting the same query on
    > this site is to see what you guys in the usa can advise me, as most of the
    > questions are relevant to the usa too, so here goes :
    >
    > "hi, all! i am in a bit of a dilemma--i have already applied for canadian
    > immigration and my interview is due in the next few months (which should go ok, as
    > i had more than the necessary points), but now i keep hearing from a lot of people
    > that why go to canada, the US is much better economy/lifestyle wise......viz :
    >
    > 1) also, i assumed that there is free healthcare for all in canada, but someone
    > told me that no, there is no social healthcare program in place in canada, you
    > are covered by a form of medical insurance provided by the company you work for
    > (just as in usa), and even then, when you pay out for medicines and you put in a
    > claim to your insurance provider, you only get a certain percentage back!!

This is incorrect. There is indeed "free" health care in Canada (it's paid for out of
tax revenue), but your entitlement is based on Canadian residency. If I recall
correctly, you have to be a Canadian resident for 60 days to qualify. You can always
purchase a short-term insurance plan from Blue Cross for a reasonable rate to cover
you until you qualify.

The Canadian system is not "socialized" medicine as you often here parroted in the
US by the health care lobby -- it would more accurately be described as a socialized
medical INSURANCE system. Physicians are not employees of the government -- they
simply all get paid by the same "insurer", which is the provincial Ministry of
Health. You can choose your own physician, which is something you can't do under
many US HMOs.

What your source may have been referring to is insurance for prescription drugs,
which is not provided by the government (except for the elderly & indigent), & is
usually provided by your employer. However, since the provincial government controls
the pricing of prescription drugs, they can be as little as one-tenth of the price in
the US. So even if you're paying for prescription drugs out of your own pocket,
you're unlikely to face financial ruin.

    > 2) another software guy who works in toronto and is on a short contract there from
    > the uk, says they work people like dogs there and its mostly work,work,work but
    > very little play, compared to the UK, where he was relatively at ease and not
    > that much pressured

I can't speak for the UK, but Canadians aren't worked any harder than Americans --
probably less so, since Canadians seem to be more concerned with "quality of life"
issues than their US counterparts. Your Toronto- based friend's work load is likely
because he works in the software industry, which is a grind no matter where you live.

    > 3) the taxes are very much higher in canada than the US also.

Yes and no. My experience has been that I'm paying slightly less tax in the US than I
did in Canada, but I'm not getting anything of value for my tax money. Canadian taxes
are slightly higher, but you get a lot of value for your money. Also remember that
the so-called low tax rates in the US that you see published by neo-con think tanks
like the Fraser Institute already include the mortgage interest deduction, which can
be substantial if you're living in a place where real estate is very pricey.

    > 4) and is it true that if you get fired in the usa, you get no financial aid
    > whatsoever and you are left to cope on your own?

This is fairly accurate. North Carolina has unemployment insurance, but the amount &
the eligibility period are far lower than Canada. Plus, employment law in the US
really favors the employer -- I have a colleague who was fired without cause from a
senior management position he had held for almost 20 years, & the company gave him 2
weeks' severance. His lawyer told him that there was nothing that he could do.

    > so, what i am asking you guys is this--why go to canada if the same kind of health
    > care is prevalent as in the US and its a weaker economy? after all, the same
    > hire'n'fire mentality exists in canada as well as the US. i mean, you may as well
    > go to the US, pay for your own medical insurance and get the best service, be more
    > well of as the wages are higher in the US, and pay little or no sales tax/income
    > tax (depending on state) ?

Canada has a much better quality of life, & the income isn't necessarily any worse,
depending on your profession. Our standard of living was actually higher in Canada
than it is now in the US.

Canadian sales taxes are a great annoyance, to be sure, though the combined
PST/GST of 15% makes it easy to calculate tips in restaurants!

If you decide to move to the US, I would advise you go to the state of Delaware. It's
the smallest state in the US (population-wise), is the most "Canadian" of the states,
has great beaches, lots of job opportunities (most US corporations have their head
offices there because of Delaware's advantageous tax rules) & has NO SALES TAX. If we
remain in the US when my wife finishes grad school, we'll be moving to Delaware.

> i know i have commited myself by paying out over C$4000 by applying for
> immigration there, but am now wondering if i did the right thing !! or should i
> forget it all and stay in england !!!!?

Having lived in both the US & Canada, I would advise you to move to Canada,
particularly since you're coming from the UK. Canada will be far less strange to you,
since many things (the parliamentary system, good beer, fish & chips) are present in
Canada as well. In addition, Canada has a very strong British expat community, so
you'll feel less like an outsider. I would recommend you look at someplace like
London, Ontario, which I refer to as "the last bastion of the British Empire in North
America", though Toronto would also be a good choice.

A warning -- Canadians, like their US neighbours, call football "soccer", & have no
understanding of cricket. And you'd better learn to like hockey!

Chris, expat Canadian

--
CHRISTOPHER J. MOOREHEAD Durham, NC [email protected]

"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." ~ Voltaire
(1694-1778)
 
Old Apr 23rd 2002, 7:04 pm
  #5  
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Default Re: what do you guys think....?

ok, rita. tnks fr yr help.
i know what the score is roughly in canada/usa but i was only trying to get some insight from those who are actually living there.
i know you have to be work-based or have blood relatives for the usa, etc.
all in all, even though it still seems that there is abit of the frontier mentality in the usa, i stil think it would be a better place than england at present, as i feel it would be freer place to bring kids up in, with more oppportunities. canada may actually be better as some other responders have suggested. ok, so you may have to pay more taxes, have no welfare to speak of, but it seems to be a society which does not tolerate "hangers-on", which can only be a good thing. after all, look whats happening here in the UK; you've got perfectly fit people who can work but just wont, cos they can pick up $400 or so every week from the state, watch tv all day and maybe drive a taxi on the side to boost their income, and all of this taxfree!! on top of that, we now get so-called refugees from europe/africa/asia who can come straight into the country, claim all the cash, get free housing, meals, education, etc, whilst my parents who have been here almost 40 years, have worked and paid and given their all to the good of the country, cant even get a small apartment from the housing authority thats what winds me up and thats what i want to get away from and i'm willing to work, too!!
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