Duncs

Well the current UK position is that you have no requirement to carry or produce ID (at least until Der Unter Fuehrer Herr Blunkett gets his way anyhow!). A situation like the DC subway incident would come under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (or PACE Order 1989 in NI). Power of arrest exists for arrestable offences (generally anything which carries over 5 years detention on trial by indictment) If a non arrestable offense had been committed however no power of arrest exists, however in order to facilitate the serving of a summons for prosecution the officer can ask for a person to identify themselves (General arrest conditions S.27 NI Order I think S.28 in England) and in the event they do not satisfy him of their identity the general arrest conditions would be met allowing arrest and detention until identity is satisfied. Similar but it is predicated on a police officer suspecting an offense being committed and the person suspected of committing it.

Is it the case that in the USA it goes beyond this to a general requirement to identify yourself on demand with no requirement for suspicion of an offence? I didn’t think so but hey I don’t have a JD either (for what its worth).

Franklin

*Agreed* ... my posts are directed to (from your reply post): "committing a violation so confirmation of identify needed to be ascertained to issue a citation". I am sticking to the OP's post. I agree that the police can't just demand a person's ID without cause or reasonable suspicion. But in the case of the woman who allegedly ate on the DC subway, she apparently committed "a violation so confirmation of identify needed to be ascertained to issue a citation"; the transit cop did not perform a Terry stop.

I hope the woman takes the matter to court, then the fact finder will determine the facts of this case. But imho it's going to hinge on whether the transit cop asked for ID and if so the woman's response, if she walked away the arrest was authorized, but I think the transit cop could have asked again for her ID and only then arrest her if she again failed to provide it. A lot of "ifs" here!

It is unfortunate that the woman was arrested, it must have been quite a shock and must have been very upsetting for her; I just wish the transit cop did not follow through with the arrest. From what I have read she is a respectable government scientist. I hope the judge wipes the slate clean for this woman, we all make the odd minor mistake. God bless her.

lairdside

Thanks for the info

I believe that in every state there is some requirement for a reuirement to identify to be predicated upon suspicion of an offence, however without checking state-by-state I can't be sure and to be honest I'm not going to..... It's not a worthwhile exercise for me and I have other things to do!

I know that some of the state's statues have been known to be interpreted as ID must be produced, others that the suspect must identify themselves and that verbally will suffice. In some states the suspect may fail to comply without penalty in others non-compliance is considered to be a misdemeanour.

lairdside

I guess I techincally have 3/4's of a J.D. , but as my course runs for 6 years (the PhD portion of the course continues for an additional 2 years) I won't consider myself to be qualified until I complete the 6 years, even though I will be eligible to sit the bar after 4.

To be honest I could have done a PhD in Clinical Psychology with a minor in Law and still been considered suitably qualified to pracitise as a Forensic Psychologist but the whole J.D./PhD thing was a CYA exercise for me.

I'm much more interested in psychology than law and the legal aspect of the work is incidental, I want to be an advocate for positive change for the mentally ill, especially paeds, so needed to show the ability to make a needs assessment and then to understand how to achieve the desired result to meet those needs.

Can I do it well enough to make a difference? Dunno, only one way to find out though

ironporer

All legalities aside, it is complete bullsh#t to stop a child, handcuff and detain her for eating a candybar. She got lippy with the fu#@ing NeoNazi cop and he had to prove his power to the world. I guess the streets of DC must have no greater criminals to bust.

Methinks the need some common sense.

lairdside

I believe that the person arrested for eating a candybar was a middle aged woman. The child was eating a french fry and was not abusive in anyway

Funny you say about "having no greater criminals to bust" - that's what the female researcher who was arrested basically said prior to her arrest.....

Duncs

I know what you mean I am still wondering about law myself. I love politics and public policy issues but I can’t help wondering if a law degree would open some doors to jobs that fit my core interests. I am thinking of X-registering for the constitutional law course at the HLS this fall if I can get it to fit my class schedule. It might help me decide on applying for the joint JD/MPP program and it an interesting area of law anyway. 2 more years on top of the current 2 but hey its only money right

By the way hope you are feeling well right now and things are going good for you.

lairdside

Yup. Nothing ventured, nothing gained

I'm feeling well, had a bit of a week this week. My son was supposed to be here right now but he is unable to travel. Initially relapse was suspected but that seems to be unlikely now (the repeat lumbar puncture and bone marrow came back clear).

His MRI has been sent to Walton hospital (a neurology center) from Alder Hey and we are waiting for their assesment of what may be causing his headaches and what the white mass appearing on the MRI is. It does sound like some kind of inflammation of the melanges but we will see ......


Obviously he can't go anywhere until they figure out what is causing the problem. I wish he was here, I'd have Stanford take a look at him. The NHS tries it's best but budget constraints are tough. Alder Hey is still doing stem cell transplants the "old fashioned" way for instance by extracting the stem cells directly from the bone marrow and implanting them, instead of taking them and depositing them via circulating blood!!!

GRRRRRR

Duncs

Sorry to hear that but at least its free.

today for me marked the first day i have had any medical coverage of any kind since i arrived here so i now love the NHS.

lairdside

I am grateful for the care he is receiving. The main reason I took the job I have now was so that my son could have medical coverage in the US, with a pre-existing condition I needed to be on a group policy so that the insurance company would be forced to cover him in accordance with HIPAA.

I figure I paid for it all the years I was paying income tax at 40%+ so don't feel too guilty

I also love the NHS,I have worked for them part-time, just the budget constraints are tough and the medical coverage I have here in the US pays 100% for cancer. We get our choice of policies, the best one strangely enough being the carrier's insurance.

I guess having 480,000 employees (with probably a few million in dependants) is a good bartering tool when dealing with the insurance companies........

Yorkieabroad

Thanks - I was actually meaning whether it was a legal requirement to carry id, rather than whether certain service providers, agencies etc may require id for certain transactions. Eg in Singapore, the locals are legally REQUIRED to carry an id card at all times - I think the same is true in certain European countries eg France. Just wondered if it was the case here.

Ps - seem to remember when I got my green card there was a note that I had to have it in my posession at all times, but I may be wrong on that...

Yorkieabroad

Oops - just read the whole thread, and see it has been answered (I think!)

Ironporer - spot on with your last comment !

lairdside

ARRRGGHH.

They lost my son's test samples enroute from one hospital to another. They will have to repeat the test but they don't want him to have a GA three weeks in a row so they can't do it until next week.

If he is able to make it over he has to be back at school by the 1st of september. We are running out of weeks here and they are bungling......

Poor kid was hoping to come over this weekend.