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And others....... I think the "my country is great" is primarily a New World thing. Maybe it's an underlying lack of national confidence - the need to identify which in much of Europe you don't need, because there is a more ingrained sense of belonging.

In the US (and Oz - the only other one that I can use from personal experience) I think it forms a constant reminder of "we all must band together." I certainly don't feel that about the UK - we can all differ if we want, criticise, whinge, carp, but underneath, we have hundreds of years of stability and nation that underpins it. I don't need to fly the Union Flag to be British. I just am.

One thing I can't stand is pure ignorance - lack of knowledge of the outside world followed by criticism of all things non-US. I had that from a co-worker the other day who, in his late 50s, has never been outside the US, does not hold a passport, and launched into telling me how "much better" the US was than ANY country. That just shows a lack of discretion and is downright impolite and disrespectful, but has not been an uncommon experience amongst the "borne-and-bred." I would never dream to lecture anyone on how much "better" the UK was than anywhere else - I have been to everywhere else to compare it !

I'm wondering if maybe your attitude to the country is determined by your status as an immigrant. I'm here on an L1 for a specific purpose within my company. My standard of living in the UK was certainly as-good as it is here - possibly even slightly better in terms of the public services provided. I don't feel that I have moved here to "make it" in the US - I'm here to carry out tasks for my company, some of which are around getting international influence into what has become a very inward-focused organisation. However, an awful lot of my co-workers appear to be here primarily to "better" themselves, escape their home country, make money, make a career. Many of the countries they come from have no social security net, no health system, rubbish public transport, etc. Maybe in that case, the US does just look great, and you would not be inclined to criticise.

All the opinions on here are really welcome - we are both (myself plus wife) feeling very alienated at the moment ! 5 months is not a long time. This weekend we've just said "Oh Sod It" and booked to stay in SF for the weekend. We're going to treat our time here as an extended holiday, and if we get assimilated into the Collective on the way, so be it.

Thanks for being my Analyst !

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When Americans ask me how I like it here ( never if ) I usually will reply honestly by saying "Like everywhere it has it's good & bad points" .

Most often this will be met with a confused silence and / or suspicious looks :)

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I think the reason that a certain type of patriotism is distrusted or looked upon as crass in old world European countries - or rather so I am told from various lectures I have sat through - is the experience of the early Twentieth century in Europe - the collapse of the great power system, violent nationalist movements, race war and genocide. The lesson drawn from that is that we should be suspicious of the kind of nationalism which was prevalent in Britain in the 19th and early 20th century, and yes there is something to be said for that. A lot of British national identity for example was based on the idea we were a Protestant 'elect nation' appointed by God to fight 'Popery' in all it's guises. But I do think a bit of harmless waving of the flag is something to be commended for fostering a sense of national identity - especially in a country like the States which is composed of so many different groups and where most people identify as hyphenated Americans.

Well the SNP made large gains in the last election and if the referendum on Scottish independence passes we are going to have to find something else to wave pretty sharpish.

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That certainly true. However there is not a lot people in the U.S can do about it unless the free-market comes up with a solution - I.E another provider comes in who doesn't charge for incoming calls/texts or (more likely) technology changes the market irrevocably. Case in point I have mates in Canada who are well aware they get a crap deal on their internet in terms of capping and other issues compared to other countries, however there is not a lot they can do about it unless the market becomes more competitive.

Healthcare on the other hand is somewhere where American can take the experience of other countries to come up with a better system - although a lot of the comparison that was done was scare-mongering. Maybe not a problem with patriotism per se but the way the right wing media manipulates the public.

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Nothing wrong with it...kind of charming at times....it's just the over the top, sickly sweet annoying in your face dose of it that gets a bit naff.

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Haha, yes, most Americans will not know how to respond to anything other than an enthusiastic "oh, I love it so much!"

I heard a brief story once about an exchange student in America who was asked by an American whether she liked it better here or at home. Clearly the American expected "oh, here, definitely!" as the answer. It...was not. Awkwardness ensured.

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Ah....speaking of patriotism

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On god love him there was a thread running all about this thick twat :lol:

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Muslamic? Did George W. write his speech??

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Don't confuse patriotism with the belief that you or your nation are superior to everyone else.

I have no problem with people who are proud of their heritage. I do have a problem with people who think they are superior to everyone else just because of where they are born.

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This is one of my biggest reservations about moving back to the UK. What a gormless prick.

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Yes! And a gold star for the new category! :starsmile:
I like it.

Two thoughts from reading that post, and I honestly mean this kindly. I appreciate the glimmers of open-mindedness in your posts.

1) I was just reading a journalist's musings on turning 70. He said "To be 70 is to have lived 30 percent of the life of this nation.." As you note, you have hundreds of years of commonality behind you. And trust me, there is some baggage that goes with that as well.

Second thought (related to second part of the quoted reply)... but, um, you *are* sort of doing that. I know if feels like you "know" America, but you don't have the experience to make the comparisons you are. I personally think it is more complex than you're making it out.

You might like the entire section of George Will's, that I snipped that line about being 70 from. My bold:

"To be 70 is to have lived 30 percent of the life of this nation, which is almost enough time to begin to fully appreciate the inestimable privilege of being a legatee of those who first unfurled the republic's sails and steered it toward the present. That is why -- with homage to F. Scott Fitzgerald -- as we beat on, boats against the current, we should be borne back ceaselessly into the American past: It is impossible for the young to know, but never too late to learn, that America truly is something -- perhaps the only thing -- commensurate with our capacity for wonder."

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(BTW, that last part should have said that I haven't been to everywhere else to compare it)

Yes - you are right.... But I don't think the UK is the "greatest" country in the world and go around telling everyone so !

I can see that we're going to have to get out more and explore - the previous suggestions for meetup.com, local soccer teams, etc are already paying off, and we are starting to make contact.

We're back in the UK over the summer - four weeks at one of our favourite places that we keep going back to year after year - Southwold on the Suffolk coast. I wonder how things will seem !

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Southwold is nice I will give you that, I come from the Norfolk Broads area, I always say Norwich to narrow it done bit its actually a little village on the broads :)