Utterly greedy f**kers??
Nov 30th 2012, 3:39 pm
#46
I approved this message
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,425
Re: Utterly greedy f**kers??
This is highly debatable. For example, putting price caps on medical services as many countries do is not "efficient", it simply distorts the market, stifles innovation and introduces shortages. Please don't misunderstand me, the current US health system is indeed an unsustainable mess. I'm not convinced that government is the solution.
Nov 30th 2012, 3:40 pm
#47
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 498
Re: Utterly greedy f**kers??
They're only saying that it is immoral not to pay them if you are a banker and/or earn over some non-specified amount.
Nov 30th 2012, 3:49 pm
#49
Mouthy Yank
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,229
Re: Utterly greedy f**kers??
Or, as it was put by better thinkers than I long ago,
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Nov 30th 2012, 4:02 pm
#50
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Re: Utterly greedy f**kers??
I used to be a Libertarian and think as you do. As I matured politically, I came to realize that contributing a reasonable proportion of resources meaningfully for the purpose of the support of the community is the duty of every member of the community, and it is also the duty of every member of the community to minimize their call upon community resources as much as they reasonably can. But a central administration of community resources is as necessary for this purpose as is the brain to the body, therefore some sort of government needs to be established. Of course, if the government doesn't work, it is also the duty of the community to remove it or alter it so that it does work, because the health of the central administration is the health of the community.
Or, as it was put by better thinkers than I long ago,
Or, as it was put by better thinkers than I long ago,
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Nov 30th 2012, 4:13 pm
#51
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Joined: May 2004
Location: North Salt Lake, Utah
Posts: 318
Re: Utterly greedy f**kers??
Some of the funds provided to the various tiers of government are no doubt mis-used, whether that be in defense spending, benefits, or any other arm of government. As a resident of Utah, I disagree with, for example, the way they have the alcohol licensing structure set up, and think that every tweak they make just wastes taxpayer money (let alone the costs to the business owners that have to be passed on).
On the whole, the idea of a governmental structure is of benefit to us all.
Nov 30th 2012, 4:15 pm
#52
Septicity
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 23,762
Re: Utterly greedy f**kers??
This is highly debatable. For example, putting price caps on medical services as many countries do is not "efficient", it simply distorts the market, stifles innovation and introduces shortages. Please don't misunderstand me, the current US health system is indeed an unsustainable mess. I'm not convinced that government is the solution.
Don't think there's any stifling of medical research and innovation in the UK, is there?
Nov 30th 2012, 4:21 pm
#53
Mouthy Yank
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,229
Re: Utterly greedy f**kers??
There's room for debate about this, and I have debated it until I'm blue in the face 
But still, whatever method you use, public or private, the community needs to make sure it's getting its money's worth. Should the government be reformed and made more efficient? I think you'd have to be very dim indeed to disagree with that basic premise. But the most effective and efficient government would be a tightly controlled tyranny with as little room for diversity or innovation as the governing board of a small country church.
What young and politically naive people often neglect to do is to see the evidence, right in front of them, that one system is doing a better job at something than another system, and to ask the necessary questions about why that is so.
But still, whatever method you use, public or private, the community needs to make sure it's getting its money's worth. Should the government be reformed and made more efficient? I think you'd have to be very dim indeed to disagree with that basic premise. But the most effective and efficient government would be a tightly controlled tyranny with as little room for diversity or innovation as the governing board of a small country church.
What young and politically naive people often neglect to do is to see the evidence, right in front of them, that one system is doing a better job at something than another system, and to ask the necessary questions about why that is so.
Last edited by Speedwell; Nov 30th 2012 at 4:24 pm.
Nov 30th 2012, 6:28 pm
#54
Banned
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,065
Re: Utterly greedy f**kers??
He and the like are AMORAL>
Nov 30th 2012, 6:29 pm
#55
Banned
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,065
Re: Utterly greedy f**kers??
This is highly debatable. For example, putting price caps on medical services as many countries do is not "efficient", it simply distorts the market, stifles innovation and introduces shortages. Please don't misunderstand me, the current US health system is indeed an unsustainable mess. I'm not convinced that government is the solution.
Nov 30th 2012, 6:30 pm
#57
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: WA state
Posts: 3,062
Re: Utterly greedy f**kers??
Seems to be a weirdly common view that universal healthcare stops research. If that were so then it doesn't explain why so many pioneering practises have come out of the countries that have it. Face transplants and womb transplants are two of the highest profile of recent times - France and Denmark?
Nov 30th 2012, 6:37 pm
#59
Banned
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,065
Re: Utterly greedy f**kers??
There's room for debate about this, and I have debated it until I'm blue in the face
But still, whatever method you use, public or private, the community needs to make sure it's getting its money's worth. Should the government be reformed and made more efficient? I think you'd have to be very dim indeed to disagree with that basic premise. But the most effective and efficient government would be a tightly controlled tyranny with as little room for diversity or innovation as the governing board of a small country church.
What young and politically naive people often neglect to do is to see the evidence, right in front of them, that one system is doing a better job at something than another system, and to ask the necessary questions about why that is so.
But still, whatever method you use, public or private, the community needs to make sure it's getting its money's worth. Should the government be reformed and made more efficient? I think you'd have to be very dim indeed to disagree with that basic premise. But the most effective and efficient government would be a tightly controlled tyranny with as little room for diversity or innovation as the governing board of a small country church.
What young and politically naive people often neglect to do is to see the evidence, right in front of them, that one system is doing a better job at something than another system, and to ask the necessary questions about why that is so.
Nov 30th 2012, 7:19 pm
#60
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Re: Utterly greedy f**kers??
Seems to be a weirdly common view that universal healthcare stops research. If that were so then it doesn't explain why so many pioneering practises have come out of the countries that have it. Face transplants and womb transplants are two of the highest profile of recent times - France and Denmark?