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US vs UK -- Where is it better to raise your kids?

View Poll Results: Where is it better to raise your kids?
US
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18.92%
UK
17
45.95%
Either
3
8.11%
Mixture of both
10
27.03%
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US vs UK -- Where is it better to raise your kids?

Old Mar 10th 2005, 11:36 am
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Default Re: US vs UK -- Where is it better to raise your kids?

Jenney and Mark,

I have raised two daughters in the UK, and now living with one in the US (she's 15). The eldest (18) decided to stay in the UK and we make do with visits, phone calls, emails etc. My belief is that it is not where you raise your kids, but how you raise them that counts. I understand what Yorkie says about a full schedule, but at 3.5 years old, it is surely up to the parents to decide how much to get their children involved in all those activities. I would add that it was just as easy to do the same in the UK.

My children at that age (3 to 4) attended half day pre-school (my choice! - there was no obligation), and again my choice to have them attend swimming lessons once a week, ballet once a week, as well as just meeting up with friends with young children at playgroups, mums & toddlers groups, etc. It was as much for me as a stay-at-home mum to get some adult conversation and group support, as it was for them to socialise and learn to share, etc.

But I also spent a lot of time with my children doing ordinary, everyday things with them like walking to the park; going on the swings; walking in the woods to look at birds, squirrels, etc; cooking at home with them; teaching them to sew and knit; gardening with them (we had an allotment where I would grow fruit and vegetables from scratch); reading to/with them; visiting the local library where they had storytime and puppet shows, as well as borrowing books. However, there was a lot of 'free time' for them to play at home, or just watch tv. I don't think of tv time as bad for them, as long as they get plenty of stimulation and opportunity to get exercise other times.

Part of what I was hoping to achieve was to instill in them a sense of my values (right or wrong - isn't that what all parents do?) like not dropping litter, being kind to people and animals, appreciating the world around them, respecting themselves and others' needs, etc. That is achieved by talking to them / listening to them a lot, as well as by example. In other words, behave how you would want them to behave and it has far more impact on them.

I have worked with children in the UK and now in the US, and it seems to me that children are the same, they need guidance and direction, and above all, discipline. By discipline, I don't mean punishment per se, but a firm boundary that they can't cross. This makes them feel secure and loved.

Jenney, from what I have read of your postings, you and Mark will make excellent parents, so keep us posted, and we hope to hear about the patter of tiny feet soon!
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Old Mar 10th 2005, 11:41 am
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Default Re: US vs UK -- Where is it better to raise your kids?

dbark, I think what Yorkie and myself were alluring to was not that its how the kids are raised that matters (thats a given and unfortunately why so many kids are yobs these days). What we were saying was in America there seems to be more pressure on The Parents to make little Johhny or Joanne become some superhuman child. And its got nothing to do with moral values and more to do with the American Ideal.
 
Old Mar 10th 2005, 12:19 pm
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Default Re: US vs UK -- Where is it better to raise your kids?

I agree totally with dbark, having been a stay at home Mum most of the time.

We moved here nearly 3 years ago when my children were 10 and 5.

My youngest had already attended nursery and reception in UK when we came here. At the age of 5 she should have started in kindergarten here but after explaining to the principal that she could already read and write he decided that she should go up a grade to 1st grade. She is the youngest in her class but her teacher tells us she is the most mature and brightest child in the class.

We used to read to our children from an early age and they both wanted to learn to read and write before they went to school. I worked in a pre-school in the UK and was amazed by the fact that some parents never read to their children. Both my children still read every night before going to sleep, their choice not ours.

I don't think there is a great deal of difference between UK and US schools (at least not where we live) having had one child do primary school in UK and one elementary in US.

There are lots more after school activities available to children in the US but they are not pressurised to take part.

Of course it depends which school district you live in in both cases but I think if you take an interest in your child's education he/she will do fine in either country.
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Old Mar 10th 2005, 1:24 pm
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Default Re: US vs UK -- Where is it better to raise your kids?

This is a tough one for me. I don't think there's too much in it except I believe that the school system and standard of education is generally better in the UK.

A lot of it depends on how you bring children up and the values you teach them. Other big things are location, the neighbourhood you live in, the outside influences and peer pressures that are brought into the child's life.

I suppose the hardest thing for me to used to at the moment, being only a few weeks away from the arrival of my first child is that they'll end up speaking with an American accent!
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Old Mar 10th 2005, 1:32 pm
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Default Re: US vs UK -- Where is it better to raise your kids?

Originally Posted by ImHere
dbark, I think what Yorkie and myself were alluring to was not that its how the kids are raised that matters (thats a given and unfortunately why so many kids are yobs these days). What we were saying was in America there seems to be more pressure on The Parents to make little Johhny or Joanne become some superhuman child. And its got nothing to do with moral values and more to do with the American Ideal.
ImHere, no slur intended. I agree that there's more pressure on the parents in the US, to push their child into being a prodigy. Whilst I believe that parents should follow their instincts, even if it means going against the tide to protect their child, I also believe parents have to achieve a balance between that and making their child so different that they feel alienated from the other kids.

An explanatory anecdote: Back in the UK, my youngest was friends with a very overprotected child, whose father (a secondary school teacher) believed that tv would harm his child. He therefore recorded what he believed to be suitable programmes (educational only) for her to watch when he felt she had earned tv time, etc etc. The result was that she knew nothing about pop culture, which occupied the conversations and games of the large majority of the other children. Just one reason why she had few friends, because she couldn't relate to them.
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Old Mar 10th 2005, 1:34 pm
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Default Re: US vs UK -- Where is it better to raise your kids?

Originally Posted by RoB1833
I suppose the hardest thing for me to used to at the moment, being only a few weeks away from the arrival of my first child is that they'll end up speaking with an American accent!
Congratulations on the baby. As for the accent, children pick it up so easily, even my 15-year old, who has been here little over a year, sounds more and more American every day!
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Old Mar 10th 2005, 2:02 pm
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Default Re: US vs UK -- Where is it better to raise your kids?

We've just had a disagreement with our daughters school. They are currently in the middle of FCATS (having had a month of extra work running up to them) and two days ago the entire class was denied their lunch recess. Basically they started school at 8am and had 20 mins to eat lunch, with no other break, until 2pm, during which they had an 80 minute FCAT reading test. They are also still getting up to 2 hours homework per night, so they are essentially working 5 days a week from 8am till 4pm with no break and taking exams at the same time. And these are 10 year olds. You wouldnt enforce that on adult workers. I told them I didnt think 10 years olds are really capable of that kind of work load and stress in the name of getting the school an A+ grade again.

PS dbark, No slur taken. Im not offended easily.
 
Old Mar 11th 2005, 1:13 am
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Default Re: US vs UK -- Where is it better to raise your kids?

Originally Posted by Yorkieabroad
its virutally impossible to get a playdate - he goes to 'school' 3 days a week 9-3.30
I have a 3.5 year old and if we were to have stayed in the UK (moved over a year ago January) she would be in nursery, along with every other 3 year old we knew. We have friends who live in Scotland and their same age daughter goes to nursery 4 days a week. All this for preparation for full time school this year when she turns 4!

I'm not sure which school system is the best, they all have their pros and cons. However, I totally agree with jjmb that children, on both sides of the pond, are studying for their testing and not really learning and that's the very sad part.
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Old Mar 11th 2005, 1:43 am
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Default Re: US vs UK -- Where is it better to raise your kids?

Originally Posted by dbark
Jenney and Mark,

I understand what Yorkie says about a full schedule, but at 3.5 years old, it is surely up to the parents to decide how much to get their children involved in all those activities. I would add that it was just as easy to do the same in the UK.

My children at that age (3 to 4) attended half day pre-school (my choice! - there was no obligation), and again my choice to have them attend swimming lessons once a week, ballet once a week, as well as just meeting up with friends with young children at playgroups, mums & toddlers groups, etc. It was as much for me as a stay-at-home mum to get some adult conversation and group support, as it was for them to socialise and learn to share, etc.

But I also spent a lot of time with my children doing ordinary, everyday things with them like walking to the park; going on the swings; walking in the woods to look at birds, squirrels, etc; cooking at home with them; teaching them to sew and knit; gardening with them (we had an allotment where I would grow fruit and vegetables from scratch); reading to/with them; visiting the local library where they had storytime and puppet shows, as well as borrowing books. However, there was a lot of 'free time' for them to play at home, or just watch tv. I don't think of tv time as bad for them, as long as they get plenty of stimulation and opportunity to get exercise other times.

Part of what I was hoping to achieve was to instill in them a sense of my values (right or wrong - isn't that what all parents do?) like not dropping litter, being kind to people and animals, appreciating the world around them, respecting themselves and others' needs, etc. That is achieved by talking to them / listening to them a lot, as well as by example. In other words, behave how you would want them to behave and it has far more impact on them.

I have worked with children in the UK and now in the US, and it seems to me that children are the same, they need guidance and direction, and above all, discipline. By discipline, I don't mean punishment per se, but a firm boundary that they can't cross. This makes them feel secure and loved.

Jenney, from what I have read of your postings, you and Mark will make excellent parents, so keep us posted, and we hope to hear about the patter of tiny feet soon!
I totally agree its up to the parents. From your description of how you raised yours, it sounds very similar to what we are doing with ours.

Our 3.5 yo is in 'school' 3 mornings a week, and we have 2 or 3 'organized' activities a week - soccer, gym, swimming, whatever. If he's been at school in the morning, we rarely schedule one of those structured 'events' in the afternoon - leave it more loose to see what he actually feels like doing.

The rest of the time is pretty much unstructured in terms of a schedule or timetable. We work in playdates, playing at the park, bike riding, zoo trips etc etc as and when it makes sense. We do lots of reading and drawing and crawling around looking at bugs and wading in ponds and so on - they're learning lots while they're doing it, but its a freeflow, rather than "its 3.30 on tuesday so we have to read for 30 minutes" or "its 4.00 on friday so the timetable says we'll do letters for 30 minutes". I think our fella probably learns more in the bath than just about anywhere else - particularly on reading and writing!

I know they say kids like routine, but (just my opinion) I think some of the people we see "over-structure" their routines too early to the extent that they end up with 3 or 4 year old automatons that are being forcefed experiences and knowledge, becoming overtired doing it, and losing out on a lot of the fun of the learning. And the kids seem totally lost when they are left to their own devices to amuse themselves for 10 minutes!
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Old Mar 17th 2005, 4:44 pm
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Default Re: US vs UK -- Where is it better to raise your kids?

Thanks for everyone who responded -- it was interesting to read your various takes on things.

I understand that the way we raise our children is probably the number one factor in whether their lives will be intellectually enriched or starved. There are people raised in complete poverty with nothing who still grow up to be well-mannered, well-educated people, all because they were brought up with the right amount of self-respect, ambition and determination.

I suppose the whole thing about American kids being over-scheduled is weighing down on me a bit. It wasn't like that when I was growing up, I went to school, did my schoolwork, played with my friends afterwards. I was on the soccer team in the fall and swim team in the summer, but other than that my life was pretty uncomplicated. I also didn't have to check in with my parents every 5 minutes to assure them I hadn't been taken away by some child molester, etc. They just let me be a kid.

But it seems to have changed so much over here now, what with metal detectors in the schools, and kids being suspended for bringing aspirin with them to school if they have a headache. And as far as having all those activities scheduled for them every day of the week, it seems that the peer pressure is really coming from the PARENTS -- the kids couldn't care less if they had to do gymnastics or sculpting class, after all. But the parents seem to equate doing more activities with being better and smarter, when all that really happens is their kids get burned out.

Since I have no experience with UK life, either as a kid or as an adult/parent, I don't really know if it's different there. Mark seems to think it is, but then again he probably doesn't pay as much attention to that sort of stuff. For whatever reason I just have the impression that my kids can just be KIDS if they're raised in the UK than if they're raised here. Reading people's comments here tends to confirm that for me, if only because the pressure on the parents is much, much less in the UK than it is here.

So..... An interesting discussion! Thanks for participating!!

~ Jenney
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Old Mar 17th 2005, 6:31 pm
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Default Re: US vs UK -- Where is it better to raise your kids?

Thought I'd add my tuppence...

We moved to CA when our sons were teenagers and they found that other kids' lives were definitely very strictly organised, not to say over-organised. During their first year here they made barely any friends because everyone was always 'too busy' with their various after-school activities and volunteering.

My boys were keen football players but they have since stopped. In England, they belonged to a team that practised once a week (if you couldn't make a session, no one would bug you) and played a (usually fairly relaxed) match at the weekend. Here it was proper training sessions twice a week (all about 'conditioning training' rather than kicking a ball around), plus really competitive matches that would have required them being ferried all over the neighbouring counties. And no one just goes to the local park to kick a ball around, with jumpers for goalposts. It's just not done (at least not where we live)!

They make a big thing of 'volunteering' and community work here. I suppose it's a good thing in some ways, but I wonder how much of this is done simply and solely so that they can fill the requisite sections on their college applications. Never managed to get my brood interested in any of this - not sure what we're going to put on the applications in that respect! (Any suggestions welcome...)

On the other hand, they are getting a good education here, whereas their school in England was cr4p. But, as others have said, the quality of education varies a lot in the US, so pick your kid-raising location with care!

I am glad that my kids have been given the chance of experiencing both worlds. It'll be interesting to see where they'll decide to stay ultimately (assuming they are to be given the choice - we still haven't got our GCs...)

Sorry if this is more of a quid than tuppence
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Old Mar 17th 2005, 7:06 pm
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Default Re: US vs UK -- Where is it better to raise your kids?

Originally Posted by Jenney & Mark
Thanks for everyone who responded -- it was interesting to read your various takes on things.

I understand that the way we raise our children is probably the number one factor in whether their lives will be intellectually enriched or starved. There are people raised in complete poverty with nothing who still grow up to be well-mannered, well-educated people, all because they were brought up with the right amount of self-respect, ambition and determination.

I suppose the whole thing about American kids being over-scheduled is weighing down on me a bit. It wasn't like that when I was growing up, I went to school, did my schoolwork, played with my friends afterwards. I was on the soccer team in the fall and swim team in the summer, but other than that my life was pretty uncomplicated. I also didn't have to check in with my parents every 5 minutes to assure them I hadn't been taken away by some child molester, etc. They just let me be a kid.

But it seems to have changed so much over here now, what with metal detectors in the schools, and kids being suspended for bringing aspirin with them to school if they have a headache. And as far as having all those activities scheduled for them every day of the week, it seems that the peer pressure is really coming from the PARENTS -- the kids couldn't care less if they had to do gymnastics or sculpting class, after all. But the parents seem to equate doing more activities with being better and smarter, when all that really happens is their kids get burned out.

Since I have no experience with UK life, either as a kid or as an adult/parent, I don't really know if it's different there. Mark seems to think it is, but then again he probably doesn't pay as much attention to that sort of stuff. For whatever reason I just have the impression that my kids can just be KIDS if they're raised in the UK than if they're raised here. Reading people's comments here tends to confirm that for me, if only because the pressure on the parents is much, much less in the UK than it is here.

So..... An interesting discussion! Thanks for participating!!

~ Jenney
Good post!
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Old Mar 17th 2005, 7:11 pm
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Default Re: US vs UK -- Where is it better to raise your kids?

[QUOTE=DonnaElvira]Thought I'd add my tuppence...


They make a big thing of 'volunteering' and community work here. I suppose it's a good thing in some ways, but I wonder how much of this is done simply and solely so that they can fill the requisite sections on their college applications.

UNQUOTE

I read about this somewhere else as well - does the college acceptance really depend that much on their extra-curriculars? I remember when we went thru uni applications it was mainly academic plus a one inch box for "hobbies", but that was a long time ago in the UK. If its that important over here, it would go some way to explaining why there does seem to be so much pressure to be busy....
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Old Mar 17th 2005, 7:35 pm
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Default Re: US vs UK -- Where is it better to raise your kids?

Originally Posted by Yorkieabroad
I read about this somewhere else as well - does the college acceptance really depend that much on their extra-curriculars? I remember when we went thru uni applications it was mainly academic plus a one inch box for "hobbies", but that was a long time ago in the UK. If its that important over here, it would go some way to explaining why there does seem to be so much pressure to be busy....
Who knows? What is certain is that, compared to the UK, the college admission process here in the US is much more... shall we say 'subjective'? For instance, if junior's parents are alumni of the same college, he/she gets extra points. If parents are 'donors' or have 'endowed' something or other at the college, that's even more points. (I think we'd call this nepotism...). If junior, in his/her 'essay', can report a hugely meaningful and/or sentimental event that fundamentally changed his outlook on his/her young life, so much the better. And so on. Here is some reading for you:

http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/F...pic-16376.html

However, AFAIK, these 'qualitative aspects' are much more important if your offspring is planning to apply to one of the major private schools (especially Ivy League). Minor private schools probably take all comers who do not need 'financial aid'. Public universities place less value on all this - it's basically academic credentials that count - but not just GPA but also SAT scores and AP classes.

There is a whole industry here of people who write about how to get into college, including writing the perfect essay, how to structure junior's 'extracurricular portfolio', and how to re-juggle your finances so that junior qualifies for maximum financial aid. Plus the scholarship racket.

Oh, and whilst I remember it: if you get one of those letters telling you that junior is an academic genius and, for a modest fee (~ $50) they will publish his/her details in a special directory that is used by all the organizations that dish out scholarships - DO NOT BELIEVE THEM! (But you wouldn't have fallen for that one, would you...)

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Old Mar 17th 2005, 9:12 pm
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Red face Re: US vs UK -- Where is it better to raise your kids?

Originally Posted by DonnaElvira
Who knows? What is certain is that, compared to the UK, the college admission process here in the US is much more... shall we say 'subjective'? For instance, if junior's parents are alumni of the same college, he/she gets extra points. If parents are 'donors' or have 'endowed' something or other at the college, that's even more points. (I think we'd call this nepotism...). If junior, in his/her 'essay', can report a hugely meaningful and/or sentimental event that fundamentally changed his outlook on his/her young life, so much the better. And so on. Here is some reading for you:

http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/F...pic-16376.html

However, AFAIK, these 'qualitative aspects' are much more important if your offspring is planning to apply to one of the major private schools (especially Ivy League). Minor private schools probably take all comers who do not need 'financial aid'. Public universities place less value on all this - it's basically academic credentials that count - but not just GPA but also SAT scores and AP classes.

There is a whole industry here of people who write about how to get into college, including writing the perfect essay, how to structure junior's 'extracurricular portfolio', and how to re-juggle your finances so that junior qualifies for maximum financial aid. Plus the scholarship racket.

Oh, and whilst I remember it: if you get one of those letters telling you that junior is an academic genius and, for a modest fee (~ $50) they will publish his/her details in a special directory that is used by all the organizations that dish out scholarships - DO NOT BELIEVE THEM! (But you wouldn't have fallen for that one, would you...)

Oh bloody hell,

this is so depressing. My son sounds just like your teenagers, doesn't have any 'schedule' after the end of the school day and there is no way he would go out and do any voluntary work. A lot of the kids aound here do, but there seems to be a lot of pressure to compete for the Ivy League colleges (you should see all the car stickers for them in the rear windows in our neighbourhood). The voluntary work seems to be usually something organised through their synagogue or church like making up food or toiletry parcels for the poor or making sandwiches for the soup kitchens (many miles away in the inner city). We don't go to church anyway and I'm afraid this sort of voluntary work does *not* appeal to my 16 year old, he'd rather kick a ball about as well, but again, no-one seems to do that around here!

I was shocked one day to see a poster on the noticeboard near our post office and the station. One 14 year old girl wanted to do some babysitting....and wrote out a long list of her achievements which included such things as 'winning many rosettes at showjumping', 'member of the local youth theatre group', 'member of the U-15 tennis league' 'honors class student' blah blah. Naturally none of this related to how she was actually able to care for young children LOL! She was obviously getting all her eggs in one basket for those future college applications.

Heck.....we are soooo unAmerican!
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