goldcrown

I'm USC, DH is Brit and we're currently living in the SouthEast (of England). We are moving to Charlotte, NC in a month.

I am very unhappy about moving (lived in UK for five years). I adore England culturally. I know I romanticise England but I don't care. I love living here. Too many reasons to mention, plus you all know why it's grand here.

Okay, back to my question. I'm very upset about putting my kids (eldest is 5) into school. Reception has been fab for him. I'm a product of US education and I look at my peers in England and am quite confident my US education was crap. I sensed this a decade ago when I studied abroad (Oxford) and felt like my US uni had failed me miserably...I knew nothing of the subject I was studying in the exchange programme. It was very embarrassing and I ended up travelling Europe to avoid my tutors.

Is the Pledge something kids absolutely have to do in school in the States? I do not want to opt out my kids if that will make them the local freak. They will have enough to deal with in adjusting (they all sound completely English, they know nothing of American terms for things, etc). But this pledging, it really bothers me.

I'm also seeing that quite a few school districts in NC (and SC, for that matter, since so many live in SC but work in Charlotte) allow paddling of students. Does anyone have experience with your kids in such a district? Did you sign a waiver or ??

Between NASCAR, 'City of Churches' (Charlotte), Billy Graham Parkway, and the suburban soccer mom nightmare that seems to be Charlotte and
surrounding counties, I'm not feeling very confident in my mental health post relocation. DH can make twice what he can make in the UK, and with tax deduction likes mortage interest and self employment stuff, we can keep more (saving for retirement). These are things I cannot change about England, as much as I wish I could. But I will miss the UK terribly, horribly, desperately.

Thanks for any advice on dealing with schools and Pledge. I'm overwhelmed by the choice of schooling in the US, it wasn't like this when I went to school. Magnet, Charter, public, private, IB, language immersion, and at least 10 elementary schools per district to research. Here in England, we just go to the school up the road and thankfully, it is fantastic. Nothing like a walk to school and loving everything about it.

fatbrit

Don't worry, they've changed the wording...

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United Corporations of America and to the profits for which they stand, one nation under lobbyists with liberty and justice for a few.

Elvira

OMG!!!

Are you saying you are moving - turning your whole life upside down and leaving a place where you and yoru family are really happy - for more $$$?

Don't do it. Seriously. It is not worth it.

Just my tuppence, of course. But your post scares me...

goldcrown

That is a relief. Worried we'd be hit in the face with Family Values and Christian Nation hypocrisy.

Sounds like Americans have embraced their corruption while I was an expat.

jumping doris

We are English, living in Pittsburgh. I have told my children they must stand for the pledge as a mark of respect but the should not say it, because as non-us citizens, it is meaningless to us. We have had no problems.
Once a new teacher asked my youngest who is 11 to be the one to recite it. She had a go but didn't know the ending and everyone just laughed, including her.

Rete

I agree with you. She and her family definitely belong in England, not in the US. It will only be detrimental to their mental and physical health and will corrupt their children and undermine their morals.

Please be good to your family, remain in England.

Rete

Excuse me, but her children are American Citizens. They do not have to say the pledge if they don't believe it but should have been taught respect for others and other countries.

TouristTrap

Where did she infer that in her post?

penguinsix

Wow, such high expectations of America.

I can nitpick your comments with agreements and disagreements, but I'd thought I rather speak about the general tone. It seems as if this trip is pretty much sorted (in that you are going to do it) but if you were just someone who came here and said 'I think I'd like to live in America but...' and then listed all the reasons you did, I'd have to say, quite simply:

Don't come.

Being an expat in any country is a really tough thing at times, and you simply have to come at without some preconceived notions. If you come with a idea that 'this will bad' or 'I don't want this' and 'I hate that' well then you are just setting yourself up for a really really miserable experiences. Anything and everything that goes bad will simply reinforce those negative thoughts that you are already having:

Stupid (American) Driver
Annoying (American) Teacher
Substandard (American) School
Phony (American) Soccer mom

You'll start to see all the little things as being part of the greater overall problem (America) and once that gets to be your problem (and you are living in America) well then--yikes!

Money isn't that big a deal if it messes up your sanity. And there is also a financial risk--you could come to the US for a few years and lo and behold, have a currency fluctuation that will reduce your buying power back home by 25%, negating any rise in income when you factor in other expenses.

I'm not trying to be overly critical, I just wanted to make a point that I hope you can sit down with your husband and go over all of these things with him and how you want to deal with them and well, just be sure you really want to make this trip.

Now, as for some of your specific comments. The pledge is not mandatory, but is part of the NC school day by and large, and yea, your kid will get looked at funny for not doing it (but hey, kids always look at other kids funny for whatever reason). More than 1/2 of kids in NC go to schools where paddling is not allowed, and if you do not want your kid to be subject to that, you simply write a note to the school (as do thousands of other parents).

As for US v. UK education, it really depends on what you are studying. I'm in the tech industry and my experiences with US and UK education in science and technology is the exact opposite of yours. It really depends on what your kids are studying (and also on how long you'll be over). You might be over only so briefly it doesn't really make a difference.

Anyway, I wish you luck in coming to a decision.

goldcrown

I think we are doing that. In the name of 'quality of life' defined very much by housing, salary, and money left over for savings and travel, etc.

We've done the numbers many times, compared the costs and home searched for months (in England). My DH needs to be near London and Heathrow for work, properties are ridiculously expensive around here (we're renting in a home that's going for 669GPB and that's low. I'd love to say we could move north but too far from work stuff.

We look at rentals here and cringe. I know life is not about having a half acre or the 'amenities' Americans brag about, it really isn't. But then being on top of each other as a family of five, living in really cramped quarters is tough.

I know America fairly well, gave it a good try for 33 years. Despite the perks of living in some places in U.S., I hate it. I know that is a terrible attitude, and odd given I am a USC. But I have always felt out of place there and came 'home' to England.

I am so envious of my friends who are living in England and no plans to move. I've worked my arse off to convince DH to stay here but he is convinced it will be better in the U.S. I think I have to let this play out.

The good thing is DH continues to work for int'l companies, so we will hopefully have the option to get out of U.S. for his job. One of his territories is Latin America and I wouldn't mind a handful of places there to live.

I am worried for me, too! And my kids. Sooner or later they will realise mama is very rebellious and I don't want to embarrass them.

We constantly have the 'how do people do it' here in England. The mortgage...the housing rampage here...it is really out of order, imo. Can't get on property ladder even though DH makes a 'good salary' and gets car incl. in benefits.

I'm just a weirdo who adores England...cried at Somerset House in December watching ice skating, that's how ridiculous I am but gawd, the Palladian beauty, the preservation of history, I love it. Visited Tower of London recently and stood behind an American in the queue. 'This reminds me so much of Disneyland!' she exclaimed, eyeing the Tower.

That is the sort of incurious, superficial crap I ran away from in the U.S. I do have intelligent friends there but believe me, they are few and far.

penguinsix

Wow, I just wrote out a long winded post. I should have waited until I saw this and just said "I TOTALLY AGREE".

nethead

My daughter started in 5th grade when we first moved here she is not a USC only a permanent resident like myself. We told her she didn't have to take the pledge if she didn't want to, but she wanted to recite along with her classmates, I think she just didn't want to feel left out. If she didn't want to recite it she would have had to give her homeroom teacher as well as her principal an explanation as to why, I think that is true of any child in the class not wanting to say it.

My husband felt the same way about the UK as you do, and he lived there 4 years before coming back to the US. I can tell you we both regret that decision, but financially we can't afford to move back. At least not for quite a few years. So if you know you will be happier in the UK don't move.

dakota44

My two cents. If you truly believe that you will hate the U.S. .... stay where you are. I'm American, living in Canada and moving back to the U.S. later this year. I have one point of view about people moving to other countries. Do as I did in Canada. Accept it with it's perceived flaws and live as if you belong. If you can't do that...then you don't deserve the right to live there. Someone can always find flaws in another country. Not hard to do. But simple fact..no country is perfect and, frankly, it is what you are willing to make of it.

DollyLlama

What D said!

fatbrit

Ah, the pawns in the strategy! Just cannon fodder, I'm afraid, and good for your general amusement.