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US-Mexico border wall

US-Mexico border wall

Old Dec 15th 2005, 1:43 pm
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Default US-Mexico border wall

US-Mexico border wall would be 'disgraceful': Fox

[Mexican President Vicente] Fox, speaking in Tamaulipas state across the border from Texas, said such extreme security measures would violate immigrants' rights.

"The disgraceful and shameful construction of walls, the increasing enforcement of security systems and increasing violation of human rights and labor rights will not protect the economy of the United States," he said.


I came across this article and this part jumped out at me. By "immigrants' rights" he actually means "illegal immigrants' rights" -- and the last time I checked, illegal immigrants don't even have the right to be here in the first place.

I also find it amazing that the leader of a country actually thinks "enforcement of security systems" to protect one's borders from illegal immigration (and possibly a terrorist here or there) is a BAD thing. Of course, since the vast majority of those illegal immigrants are jumping the border to escape poverty and unemployment in his own country, I suppose he has an incentive for his neighbor to accept them with open arms.

What do you guys think about this? I'm interested to hear the perpective of those who legally immigrated here, since the only voices ever really heard in this debate are from Americans or illegal immigrants, not legal immigrants.

~ Jenney
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Old Dec 15th 2005, 1:50 pm
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Default Re: US-Mexico border wall

Originally Posted by Jenney & Mark

What do you guys think about this?
I think Vincente Fox is a prick.

whilst I can but only thank the lord I can feed my kids and don't have to resort to running borders myself, I think Fox is a joke. On one hand he'll complain up and down dale to anyone who'll listen about the poor plight of Mexican illegal immigrants into the USA, while behind the scenes treating Guatemalans,
Hondurans and Belizians like shit if they dare to go to Mexico looking for work.
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Old Dec 15th 2005, 2:08 pm
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Default Re: US-Mexico border wall

"such extreme security measures would violate [illegal] immigrants' rights."

As someone who had to spend 2.5 years sitting round in the UK waiting for our GC's to be approved and jumping through various USCIS hoops to get them I find the above statement absolutely incredulous. Theres no doubt he means illegal since legal immigrants do have rights already to be able to enter and leave the country at will. If I was the US president I would tell our Vincente to go F**K himself and that now the wall is going to be twice as high, twice as thick and run coast to coast..
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Old Dec 15th 2005, 2:30 pm
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Default Re: US-Mexico border wall

Originally Posted by Jenney & Mark
US-Mexico border wall would be 'disgraceful': Fox

[Mexican President Vicente] Fox, speaking in Tamaulipas state across the border from Texas, said such extreme security measures would violate immigrants' rights.

"The disgraceful and shameful construction of walls, the increasing enforcement of security systems and increasing violation of human rights and labor rights will not protect the economy of the United States," he said.


I came across this article and this part jumped out at me. By "immigrants' rights" he actually means "illegal immigrants' rights" -- and the last time I checked, illegal immigrants don't even have the right to be here in the first place.

I also find it amazing that the leader of a country actually thinks "enforcement of security systems" to protect one's borders from illegal immigration (and possibly a terrorist here or there) is a BAD thing. Of course, since the vast majority of those illegal immigrants are jumping the border to escape poverty and unemployment in his own country, I suppose he has an incentive for his neighbor to accept them with open arms.

What do you guys think about this? I'm interested to hear the perpective of those who legally immigrated here, since the only voices ever really heard in this debate are from Americans or illegal immigrants, not legal immigrants.

~ Jenney
Let;s see... over 10-15 million illegals here now, each probably mailing back $100-200 a week to Mama back home. 15,000,000 x $200 x 52 weeks= 156 billion (?) dollars- probably the single greatest revenue stream of foreign currency that Mexico has...plus taking millions off their unemployment, social security, national medical care.

Makes perfect sence to me to defend it if I were president.
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Old Dec 15th 2005, 4:08 pm
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Default Re: US-Mexico border wall

Originally Posted by Jenney & Mark
US-Mexico border wall would be 'disgraceful': Fox

[Mexican President Vicente] Fox, speaking in Tamaulipas state across the border from Texas, said such extreme security measures would violate immigrants' rights.

"The disgraceful and shameful construction of walls, the increasing enforcement of security systems and increasing violation of human rights and labor rights will not protect the economy of the United States," he said.


I came across this article and this part jumped out at me. By "immigrants' rights" he actually means "illegal immigrants' rights" -- and the last time I checked, illegal immigrants don't even have the right to be here in the first place.

I also find it amazing that the leader of a country actually thinks "enforcement of security systems" to protect one's borders from illegal immigration (and possibly a terrorist here or there) is a BAD thing. Of course, since the vast majority of those illegal immigrants are jumping the border to escape poverty and unemployment in his own country, I suppose he has an incentive for his neighbor to accept them with open arms.

What do you guys think about this? I'm interested to hear the perpective of those who legally immigrated here, since the only voices ever really heard in this debate are from Americans or illegal immigrants, not legal immigrants.

~ Jenney
of course he doesnt want the wall - its not like the Mexican Federales keep having to send naughty Californians back to USA, because they were after some big earnings in Tijuana.. !
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Old Dec 15th 2005, 4:48 pm
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Default Re: US-Mexico border wall

Fox’s comments on the wall have some significance. It is not only his country that has encouraged this human disaster but also the US government. At least he is honest about, in stark contrast to the hypocritical stance of the politicos over here.

The building of the wall itself is also a path to nowhere except insofar as it demonstrates to a gullible public that their elected officials are doing something about this issue. But they know, and presumably hope, it will not work. Building a wall is simply not an answer or even a start to finding a solution to the illegal immigration problem. And, so far, the halls of power have resisted any change to the status quo in the apartheid system they have allowed to develop over the past decade.

If you truly want to cut down on the number of illegal immigrants, you cut off the reason for them coming here. Simply, if they can’t get a job, they will not come. And it is far easier and cheaper to remove this honey pot than to build a wall. (If you took a less insular perspective, you might well instead argue that it might be a good idea to find ways of encouraging Mexico to share its wealth and promote prosperity there, too.)

Knowing full well that it is not a solution to the problem, the elected representatives – or perhaps we should say their paymasters – can hold their hands up and proclaim to the populous that they feel their pain and have tried, pointing at the white elephant on the border, all means to solve it, alas unsuccessfully. Bunkum! If they wanted to solve the problem, they could. They have no wish. The present situation is far too congenial. Instead, they have profited from awarding contracts to their corporate friends and had the opportunity to fund from the taxpayers a new empire planning, maintaining and running a pointless piece of junk.
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Old Dec 15th 2005, 5:59 pm
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Default Re: US-Mexico border wall

Originally Posted by Jenney & Mark
Of course, since the vast majority of those illegal immigrants are jumping the border to escape poverty and unemployment in his own country, I suppose he has an incentive for his neighbor to accept them with open arms.
Jenney,
here's an interesting companion read, and with data that's not from some rightwing wacko group:
Better pay in U.S. lures illegal workers
Border - A survey appears to dispel the view that Mexicans come because they lack jobs
Wednesday, December 07, 2005
DAVE MONTGOMERY

http://www.oregonlive.com/search/ind...EXCLUDE&coll=7
Most undocumented workers from Mexico had jobs there before they entered the United States, according to a report released Tuesday.

That conclusion undercuts one long-held explanation for illegal immigration: that people can't find work at home.

Instead, undocumented Mexican immigrants are driven to the United States by a complex assortment of factors, including higher wages, better working conditions and a chance to reunite with growing networks of families who settled in the United States before them, according to researchers with the Pew Hispanic Center in Washington.

"Lack of work does not appear to be the main reason why migrants leave Mexico for the United States," the report says.

me here:
Personally, I htink the situation has gone too far to change with the methods everyon is thinking of now. Note that the last paragraph in the story says
"Family ties provide a strong draw for illegal immigrants as well as a source of support once they arrive. At least 80 percent of those surveyed said they had extended family in the United States."
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Old Dec 15th 2005, 6:03 pm
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Default Re: US-Mexico border wall

As much as the presence of illegal immigrants get on nerves and I would dearly like to seal them all in a concrete envelope and post them into sea, the fact remains that these immigrants do all the shite jobs that nobody else in their right mind would do, they get paid peanuts for it and are grateful!
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Old Dec 15th 2005, 6:04 pm
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Default Re: US-Mexico border wall

Originally Posted by Nia_Nia
As much as the presence of illegal immigrants get on nerves and I would dearly like to seal them all in a concrete envelope and post them into sea,
How compassionate.
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Old Dec 15th 2005, 6:08 pm
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Default Re: US-Mexico border wall

Originally Posted by Manc
How compassionate.
Compassion is not my strong point when it comes to leeching illegal spics but they do serve a purpose so whatever works!
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Old Dec 15th 2005, 6:11 pm
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Default Re: US-Mexico border wall

Originally Posted by Nia_Nia
As much as the presence of illegal immigrants get on nerves and I would dearly like to seal them all in a concrete envelope and post them into sea, the fact remains that these immigrants do all the shite jobs that nobody else in their right mind would do, they get paid peanuts for it and are grateful!

But it's moved beyond that, now, indeed they are almost middle class Americans. The stereotype of the group huddled in Home Depot's parking lot is dated. It's true that the wages are lower, but this will only be a single generational phenomena. They buy houses, their kids (in many cases American kids, indeed) get an education, their parents hold two jobs each, and their children will be equal to their citizen peers when they leave their education.

So if you want cheap Big Macs and pool cleaning, you've only got it for the next couple of decades or so. After that, the generation that was bought up in America is not going to accept a secondary rung on society's ladder.
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Old Dec 15th 2005, 6:12 pm
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Default Re: US-Mexico border wall

Originally Posted by fatbrit
But it's moved beyond that, now, indeed they are almost middle class Americans. The stereotype of the group huddled in Home Depot's parking lot is dated. It's true that the wages are lower, but this will only be a single generational phenomena. They buy houses, their kids (in many cases American kids, indeed) get an education, their parents hold two jobs each, and their children will be equal to their citizen peers when they leave their education.

So if you want cheap Big Macs and pool cleaning, you've only got it for the next couple of decades or so. After that, the generation that was bought up in America is not going to accept a secondary rung on society's ladder.
How can they do all of that when they have no 401K, no social and no bank account? They can't even get welfare can they?
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Old Dec 15th 2005, 6:13 pm
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Default Re: US-Mexico border wall

Originally Posted by Nia_Nia
Compassion is not my strong point when it comes to leeching illegal spics but they do serve a purpose so whatever works!
Normally I'd edit a comment like that, but I've decided to leave it to show what a disgrace you are.
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Old Dec 15th 2005, 6:14 pm
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Default Re: US-Mexico border wall

Originally Posted by Nia_Nia
Compassion is not my strong point when it comes to leeching illegal spics but they do serve a purpose so whatever works!
lets not start throwing names like that around.. remember - you are i are both Taffys!
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Old Dec 15th 2005, 6:18 pm
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Default Re: US-Mexico border wall

Originally Posted by CarlM
lets not start throwing names like that around.. remember - you are i are both Taffys!
Yes I know I am a taffy but how many people get on their high horse about THAT particular comment? I know I don't! I have no problem with that particular 'label' at all.
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