US: Immigrants May Be Held Indefinitely

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Nov 14th 2006, 9:03 am

#91

fatbrit

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Re: US: Immigrants May Be Held Indefinitely

Quote:

Originally Posted by anotherlimey

Nope, but there is the 14th Amendment:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The "any person" here - I believe - is generally regarded as anyone in the US. So it does afford some protection for non-USCs.

We had a bucket load of crap propositions for the closet racist crowd at the recent election. They all passed. This one was probably the worst:

Proposition 102 states that:
A PERSON WHO IS PRESENT IN THIS STATE IN VIOLATION OF FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAW RELATED TO IMPROPER ENTRY BY AN ALIEN SHALL NOT BE AWARDED PUNITIVE DAMAGES IN ANY ACTION IN ANY COURT IN THIS STATE.

Be interesting to see what happens to this when it reaches the higher courts -- as it undoubtedly will!

Nov 14th 2006, 9:06 am

#92

Elvira

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Re: US: Immigrants May Be Held Indefinitely

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatbrit

So employers can now exploit illegal workers with even more impunity than previously.

Nov 14th 2006, 9:12 am

#93

anotherlimey

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Re: US: Immigrants May Be Held Indefinitely

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatbrit

Do they need a test case to be taken to a higher court? If so, I doubt there's an illegal immigrant who would submit themselves to this.

Nov 14th 2006, 9:13 am

#94

fatbrit

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Re: US: Immigrants May Be Held Indefinitely

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elvira

So employers can now exploit illegal workers with even more impunity than previously.

Yep --

First of all, export all jobs possible to cheaper markets overseas without worker protection.

Secondly, import cheap labour for those jobs that cannot be exported.

Welcome to the United Corporations of America, folks!

Nov 14th 2006, 9:15 am

#95

BigDavyG

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Re: US: Immigrants May Be Held Indefinitely

Quote:

Originally Posted by gardnma

Like the Japanese and Germans were in WW2? The stance of the right seems to be that we are at war and therefore they can justify (and have done) just about anything they feel like. Thats the scary sh!t right there, IMO. All they have to do is wave the "Bloody Shirt" and anything goes. Trouble is, if anything goes, eventually, everything may.

Personally, I am afraid for my children, but that's another thread, innit?

Can you qualify that statement with 'extreme right' perhaps - its a bit of a massive overstatement to say that this behaviour is some kind of right-wing trait.
Anyway, didn't the Russians get up to some fairly nasty stuff during WW2 as well, or does that not count ??

Nov 14th 2006, 9:18 am

#96

fatbrit

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Re: US: Immigrants May Be Held Indefinitely

Quote:

Originally Posted by anotherlimey

Do they need a test case to be taken to a higher court? If so, I doubt there's an illegal immigrant who would submit themselves to this.

The only way I know to appeal is to first lose. I'm pretty sure that "radical organizations that free paedophiles" such as the ACLU will be footing the bill for you.

Nov 14th 2006, 9:18 am

#97

snowbunny

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Re: US: Immigrants May Be Held Indefinitely

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan_alford

Section 3: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

Well I haven't waged war or given aid and comfort to anyone who I know to be an Enemy. Well, wait a minute.... does volunteering to give food to people who are most likely illegal aliens count? Should I ask to see their papers first?

Nov 14th 2006, 9:21 am

#98

dan_alford

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Re: US: Immigrants May Be Held Indefinitely

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowbunny

I'm sure that many of the radical republicans and christian extremists will say that by not supporting the government you are giving aid to the enemy

Nov 14th 2006, 9:29 am

#99

Silly Sod

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Re: US: Immigrants May Be Held Indefinitely

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDavyG

Does the current administration consider itself the extreme right?

Nov 14th 2006, 9:32 am

#100

jen_andreson

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Re: US: Immigrants May Be Held Indefinitely

Just to clarify, as I read about this (links below) it only applies to those who have been classified as combatants. It is not saying that any immigrant can be held indefinitely.

Is that incorrect?

I'm not saying that I agree with it, but just trying to be clear on what it really means.

I guess we need to understand how combatant is defined, and watch what happens with the court proceedings on this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlates...213509,00.html

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa..._indefinitely/

Last edited by jen_andreson; Nov 14th 2006 at 9:34 am.

Nov 14th 2006, 9:43 am

#101

jen_andreson

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Re: US: Immigrants May Be Held Indefinitely

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatbrit

How many illegal aliens sue for/expect punitive damages? I would have thought illegals would keep a low profile, rather than take someone to court?

This still entitled illegals to compensatory damages, if you read the whole proposition:

A person who wins a civil lawsuit may receive two types of damages-compensatory and punitive. Compensatory damages are awarded to compensate the injured party for the injuries sustained by making good or replacing the loss caused by the injury. Punitive damages are awarded in excess of compensatory damages to punish the person sued for a serious wrong and to discourage others from engaging in similar wrongful conduct.
Proposition 102 would prohibit a person who wins a civil lawsuit from receiving punitive damages if the person is present in this state in violation of federal immigration law related to improper entry.

--not sure why that is so bad? Should illegal aliens be allowed to sue and receive punitive and compensatory damages?

Last edited by jen_andreson; Nov 14th 2006 at 9:46 am.

Nov 14th 2006, 9:43 am

#102

gardnma

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Re: US: Immigrants May Be Held Indefinitely

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDavyG

Weeel, oh allright then. Extreme right it is. There must be some right wingers who won't have hot botties for eternity.
I suppose.

Absolutely right there about the Reds. They were as much an evil as Nazi Germany - and they got away with it.
The "removal" of the Kulaks for example.
They didn't release many German POW's until the mid to late 1950's as you may well know.

Nov 14th 2006, 9:48 am

#103

BigDavyG

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Re: US: Immigrants May Be Held Indefinitely

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Sod

Does the current administration consider itself the extreme right?

The current administration can consider itself to be the fairy on top of the Christmas Tree to be fair - that doesn't make it true though.

Nov 14th 2006, 9:59 am

#104

Silly Sod

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Re: US: Immigrants May Be Held Indefinitely

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDavyG

The current administration can consider itself to be the fairy on top of the Christmas Tree to be fair - that doesn't make it true though.

I meant that the current administration doesn't consider itself the extreme right and yet they obviously are and behaving that way. So I didn't think there was any need to qualify the original statement with 'extreme right'. As far as the current administration would have us believe they are all god fearing Christians doing good works to save the world (albeit by any means necessary).