US economy: set to implode?
#16
Re: US economy: set to implode?
It used to be easy to have a very comfortable standard of living in the US with very limited education. Many of the jobs that allowed that to be possible no longer exist in the US. And yet barriers to education are rising, namely in the form of reduced spending on education, vastly increased tuition fees for colleges etc. Similarly, social mobility in the US used to be higher than in other western countries. The reverse is now largely true. I find those two disconcerting trends that are indicative of how the US is struggling to adapt with a changing economic world.
#17
Re: US economy: set to implode?
Personally, I wouldn't sweat it.
According to the Mayans, we've only got 22 days left anyway.
According to the Mayans, we've only got 22 days left anyway.
#18
Re: US economy: set to implode?
I was going to guess a Tea Party Republican until I got to this post. In any case, I agree with SR that he's reacting (irrationally) to Obama's re-election victory.
Regards, JEff
Regards, JEff
#21
I approved this message
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,425
Re: US economy: set to implode?
It isn't just about the #1 economy, it's the tendency to say and believe that the US is best at everything and refusing to see the statistics that deny this. If one fails to see a deficit, in fact continues to believe there is no such deficit, one fails to do anything to correct it and falls further behind. Think healthcare; think infant mortality; think poverty and homelessness, think crime statistics; think incarceration statistics....Think of something I cannot write here except for productivity, and that is at the cost of quality of life for all but the Romneys of this country.
Last edited by Hiro11; Nov 30th 2012 at 3:31 pm.
#22
I approved this message
Joined: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 2,425
Re: US economy: set to implode?
It used to be easy to have a very comfortable standard of living in the US with very limited education. Many of the jobs that allowed that to be possible no longer exist in the US. And yet barriers to education are rising, namely in the form of reduced spending on education, vastly increased tuition fees for colleges etc. Similarly, social mobility in the US used to be higher than in other western countries. The reverse is now largely true. I find those two disconcerting trends that are indicative of how the US is struggling to adapt with a changing economic world.
Also, your claim that there are now more barriers to higher education than ever before is provably incorrect. The college attendance rate is at an all time high.
Last edited by Hiro11; Nov 30th 2012 at 3:31 pm.
#23
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,851
Re: US economy: set to implode?
Again, what does any of this have to do with no longer being the largest GDP in the world? What is the direct impact of this statistic changing? Nothing. When China exceeds the US GDP per capita or starts leading the world in producing Nobel prizes, higher education and new IP, you'll have a point.
Also, your claim that there are now more barriers to higher education than ever before is provably incorrect. The college attendance rate is at an all time high.
"How many students who enroll in college earn a degree? I have heard that 38% who enter college graduate in four years, 42% of them graduate in 6 years. How about everyone else?"
Additionally, how many are now ending up with a crippling debt load at the end of it? And what is the likely impact of that debt?
Edit: I also see these are percentages of the "graduating class" of high school students.
Last edited by Giantaxe; Nov 30th 2012 at 5:12 pm.
#24
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,259
Re: US economy: set to implode?
How supposedly intelligent people can't figure out that the nation cannot survive another 4 years of Obama's fiscal policy is baffling. I guess they need him there to keep paying for all their stuff, and they just hope it will work out somehow. The electorate voted for more of the same promotion of the sickening entitlement society and borrowing gazillions of Yen to pay for it with no clue about how to pay the money back - and that's what they'll get.
Printing and borrowing money ad infinitum is no recipe for economic survival, so we have no way to avoid a total economic reset. And those who think "it'll be ok, don't worry about it" are simply deluded.
#25
Heading for Poppyland
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: North Norfolk and northern New York State
Posts: 14,452
Re: US economy: set to implode?
He's right.
How supposedly intelligent people can't figure out that the nation cannot survive another 4 years of Obama's fiscal policy is baffling. I guess they need him there to keep paying for all their stuff, and they just hope it will work out somehow. The electorate voted for more of the same promotion of the sickening entitlement society and borrowing gazillions of Yen to pay for it with no clue about how to pay the money back - and that's what they'll get.
Printing and borrowing money ad infinitum is no recipe for economic survival, so we have no way to avoid a total economic reset. And those who think "it'll be ok, don't worry about it" are simply deluded.
How supposedly intelligent people can't figure out that the nation cannot survive another 4 years of Obama's fiscal policy is baffling. I guess they need him there to keep paying for all their stuff, and they just hope it will work out somehow. The electorate voted for more of the same promotion of the sickening entitlement society and borrowing gazillions of Yen to pay for it with no clue about how to pay the money back - and that's what they'll get.
Printing and borrowing money ad infinitum is no recipe for economic survival, so we have no way to avoid a total economic reset. And those who think "it'll be ok, don't worry about it" are simply deluded.
#26
Re: US economy: set to implode?
He's right.
How supposedly intelligent people can't figure out that the nation cannot survive another 4 years of Obama's fiscal policy is baffling. I guess they need him there to keep paying for all their stuff, and they just hope it will work out somehow. The electorate voted for more of the same promotion of the sickening entitlement society and borrowing gazillions of Yen to pay for it with no clue about how to pay the money back - and that's what they'll get.
Printing and borrowing money ad infinitum is no recipe for economic survival, so we have no way to avoid a total economic reset. And those who think "it'll be ok, don't worry about it" are simply deluded.
How supposedly intelligent people can't figure out that the nation cannot survive another 4 years of Obama's fiscal policy is baffling. I guess they need him there to keep paying for all their stuff, and they just hope it will work out somehow. The electorate voted for more of the same promotion of the sickening entitlement society and borrowing gazillions of Yen to pay for it with no clue about how to pay the money back - and that's what they'll get.
Printing and borrowing money ad infinitum is no recipe for economic survival, so we have no way to avoid a total economic reset. And those who think "it'll be ok, don't worry about it" are simply deluded.
#27
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Re: US economy: set to implode?
He's right.
How supposedly intelligent people can't figure out that the nation cannot survive another 4 years of Obama's fiscal policy is baffling. I guess they need him there to keep paying for all their stuff, and they just hope it will work out somehow. The electorate voted for more of the same promotion of the sickening entitlement society and borrowing gazillions of Yen to pay for it with no clue about how to pay the money back - and that's what they'll get.
Printing and borrowing money ad infinitum is no recipe for economic survival, so we have no way to avoid a total economic reset. And those who think "it'll be ok, don't worry about it" are simply deluded.
How supposedly intelligent people can't figure out that the nation cannot survive another 4 years of Obama's fiscal policy is baffling. I guess they need him there to keep paying for all their stuff, and they just hope it will work out somehow. The electorate voted for more of the same promotion of the sickening entitlement society and borrowing gazillions of Yen to pay for it with no clue about how to pay the money back - and that's what they'll get.
Printing and borrowing money ad infinitum is no recipe for economic survival, so we have no way to avoid a total economic reset. And those who think "it'll be ok, don't worry about it" are simply deluded.
#28
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,847
Re: US economy: set to implode?
He's right.
How supposedly intelligent people can't figure out that the nation cannot survive another 4 years of Obama's fiscal policy is baffling. I guess they need him there to keep paying for all their stuff, and they just hope it will work out somehow. The electorate voted for more of the same promotion of the sickening entitlement society and borrowing gazillions of Yen to pay for it with no clue about how to pay the money back - and that's what they'll get.
Printing and borrowing money ad infinitum is no recipe for economic survival, so we have no way to avoid a total economic reset. And those who think "it'll be ok, don't worry about it" are simply deluded.
How supposedly intelligent people can't figure out that the nation cannot survive another 4 years of Obama's fiscal policy is baffling. I guess they need him there to keep paying for all their stuff, and they just hope it will work out somehow. The electorate voted for more of the same promotion of the sickening entitlement society and borrowing gazillions of Yen to pay for it with no clue about how to pay the money back - and that's what they'll get.
Printing and borrowing money ad infinitum is no recipe for economic survival, so we have no way to avoid a total economic reset. And those who think "it'll be ok, don't worry about it" are simply deluded.
Here's why Boehner and others spouting the same line are either liars or idiots...
Increasing marginal rates for earnings over $250K is NOT going to stop the so-called job creators and entrepreneurs from creating jobs. Why? Because the tax increase from 35% to 39.6% is on NET income over $250K - that's AFTER investments in any business equipment, payroll expenses etc etc etc are taken in to account. If anything, increasing these marginal rates might be an INCENTIVE to lower tax liability if so inclined, by INVESTING MORE in equipment and headcount - the very things needed to support GROWTH. And growth in the economy is what the GOP have been banging on about as needed for a lower tax rate policy to be able to bring in more actual tax dollars...
Boehner knows all this apparently, because eleventy billion years ago, as he keeps repeating, he ran a small business.
So if he knows this and he's saying largely the opposite, he MUST BE LYING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE...
Additionally, there is NO CONSENSUS amongst serious economists that lower tax rates by themselves stimulate the economy, and if they do, as part of a basket of other measures, the effect is very small.
Cutting entitlements such as medicare and medicaid simply takes money out of people with not a lot anyway, who are vulnerable, and frankly, in many cases, have paid their share to society having worked for 40+ years, fought in appropriate wars, toiled to build the American Dream and strong economy of the 60s - 80s... And it makes for a shitty society... but let's not let THAT get in the way of simple greed and avarice of the 2% or those who would like to be in the 2%...
Under Obama's first 4 years the auto industry was saved, he carried through the last budget of Bush, which added a ton to the deficit and the debt, and presided over a global meltdown that was not of his making or under his control - these things are simply not under the control of any 1 or even a small group of individuals, no matter what you think - learn more about this by studying the basics of Complex Adaptive Systems - assuming you have an open-enough mind to follow even the most basics principles of the Scientific Method.
It's about time somebody called out Boehner and the other idiots that support his position.
When the fiscal cliff happens - and it will - I'll be see the majority of my current disposable income disappear. I'm OK giving that up for a moment if Obama sticks to his guns, carries through on his mandate and calls Boehner's bluff.
And 2014 will see the Electorate's verdict plain enough - hopefully either a more moderate GOP House, or a Dem House. Then we can get some real work done...
#29
Banned
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,065
Re: US economy: set to implode?
He's right.
How supposedly intelligent people can't figure out that the nation cannot survive another 4 years of Obama's fiscal policy is baffling. I guess they need him there to keep paying for all their stuff, and they just hope it will work out somehow. The electorate voted for more of the same promotion of the sickening entitlement society and borrowing gazillions of Yen to pay for it with no clue about how to pay the money back - and that's what they'll get.
Printing and borrowing money ad infinitum is no recipe for economic survival, so we have no way to avoid a total economic reset. And those who think "it'll be ok, don't worry about it" are simply deluded.
How supposedly intelligent people can't figure out that the nation cannot survive another 4 years of Obama's fiscal policy is baffling. I guess they need him there to keep paying for all their stuff, and they just hope it will work out somehow. The electorate voted for more of the same promotion of the sickening entitlement society and borrowing gazillions of Yen to pay for it with no clue about how to pay the money back - and that's what they'll get.
Printing and borrowing money ad infinitum is no recipe for economic survival, so we have no way to avoid a total economic reset. And those who think "it'll be ok, don't worry about it" are simply deluded.
I think you are teasing us! Lets do what Ethel suggests in his post!
#30
Banned
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,065
Re: US economy: set to implode?
Wow - you're logic is about s bolloxed-up as that idiot/liar Boehner...
Here's why Boehner and others spouting the same line are either liars or idiots...
Increasing marginal rates for earnings over $250K is NOT going to stop the so-called job creators and entrepreneurs from creating jobs. Why? Because the tax increase from 35% to 39.6% is on NET income over $250K - that's AFTER investments in any business equipment, payroll expenses etc etc etc are taken in to account. If anything, increasing these marginal rates might be an INCENTIVE to lower tax liability if so inclined, by INVESTING MORE in equipment and headcount - the very things needed to support GROWTH. And growth in the economy is what the GOP have been banging on about as needed for a lower tax rate policy to be able to bring in more actual tax dollars...
Boehner knows all this apparently, because eleventy billion years ago, as he keeps repeating, he ran a small business.
So if he knows this and he's saying largely the opposite, he MUST BE LYING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE...
Additionally, there is NO CONSENSUS amongst serious economists that lower tax rates by themselves stimulate the economy, and if they do, as part of a basket of other measures, the effect is very small.
Cutting entitlements such as medicare and medicaid simply takes money out of people with not a lot anyway, who are vulnerable, and frankly, in many cases, have paid their share to society having worked for 40+ years, fought in appropriate wars, toiled to build the American Dream and strong economy of the 60s - 80s... And it makes for a shitty society... but let's not let THAT get in the way of simple greed and avarice of the 2% or those who would like to be in the 2%...
Under Obama's first 4 years the auto industry was saved, he carried through the last budget of Bush, which added a ton to the deficit and the debt, and presided over a global meltdown that was not of his making or under his control - these things are simply not under the control of any 1 or even a small group of individuals, no matter what you think - learn more about this by studying the basics of Complex Adaptive Systems - assuming you have an open-enough mind to follow even the most basics principles of the Scientific Method.
It's about time somebody called out Boehner and the other idiots that support his position.
When the fiscal cliff happens - and it will - I'll be see the majority of my current disposable income disappear. I'm OK giving that up for a moment if Obama sticks to his guns, carries through on his mandate and calls Boehner's bluff.
And 2014 will see the Electorate's verdict plain enough - hopefully either a more moderate GOP House, or a Dem House. Then we can get some real work done...
Here's why Boehner and others spouting the same line are either liars or idiots...
Increasing marginal rates for earnings over $250K is NOT going to stop the so-called job creators and entrepreneurs from creating jobs. Why? Because the tax increase from 35% to 39.6% is on NET income over $250K - that's AFTER investments in any business equipment, payroll expenses etc etc etc are taken in to account. If anything, increasing these marginal rates might be an INCENTIVE to lower tax liability if so inclined, by INVESTING MORE in equipment and headcount - the very things needed to support GROWTH. And growth in the economy is what the GOP have been banging on about as needed for a lower tax rate policy to be able to bring in more actual tax dollars...
Boehner knows all this apparently, because eleventy billion years ago, as he keeps repeating, he ran a small business.
So if he knows this and he's saying largely the opposite, he MUST BE LYING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE...
Additionally, there is NO CONSENSUS amongst serious economists that lower tax rates by themselves stimulate the economy, and if they do, as part of a basket of other measures, the effect is very small.
Cutting entitlements such as medicare and medicaid simply takes money out of people with not a lot anyway, who are vulnerable, and frankly, in many cases, have paid their share to society having worked for 40+ years, fought in appropriate wars, toiled to build the American Dream and strong economy of the 60s - 80s... And it makes for a shitty society... but let's not let THAT get in the way of simple greed and avarice of the 2% or those who would like to be in the 2%...
Under Obama's first 4 years the auto industry was saved, he carried through the last budget of Bush, which added a ton to the deficit and the debt, and presided over a global meltdown that was not of his making or under his control - these things are simply not under the control of any 1 or even a small group of individuals, no matter what you think - learn more about this by studying the basics of Complex Adaptive Systems - assuming you have an open-enough mind to follow even the most basics principles of the Scientific Method.
It's about time somebody called out Boehner and the other idiots that support his position.
When the fiscal cliff happens - and it will - I'll be see the majority of my current disposable income disappear. I'm OK giving that up for a moment if Obama sticks to his guns, carries through on his mandate and calls Boehner's bluff.
And 2014 will see the Electorate's verdict plain enough - hopefully either a more moderate GOP House, or a Dem House. Then we can get some real work done...