snowbunny

So does that mean we should all move to Russia?

Giantaxe

Agreed. I feel more pessimistic about the economy of the US than I have done at any time since moving here. These $600 payments are essentially a nonsense (and will be paid for my issuing more debt anyway). The idea that we can grow the economy by encouraging people to buy yet more stuff they don't need is absurd when at the same time fundamental issues like access to healthcare go unaddressed. And raising the conforming loan limit for mortgages is even worse: the reason we're in this mess is largely because people have been lent more money to buy property than they could reasonably afford to pay back. And now we are going to provide an implicit subsidy to an even larger group of people rather than letting the free market appropriately price risk. Absolute foolishness, but then this is an election year.

Xebedee

Makes you wonder which players our kids will see.
Perhaps its the turn of the Eastern nations to drive the machine?
Empires are redundant, industry has morphed and moved, people are just (different?).
Better go stock up on pineapples, just in case. Or perhaps a melon.

Graxley

I find it odd how America hates communism and buys most of its goods from China and fears terrorism but buys so much oil from Middle eastern countries.

simongb

Yes, that is so true! Hadn't thought of that before. The idea of communism is quite an attractive one and so is the idea of capitalism. The reality of both systems is quite different. However, to say one is good and the other 'bad' is just childish. What I find in the US is that many people do not think beyond their knee jerk reactions to the 'news' (government sanctioned propaganda....did Goebbels really die or is he working for Fox News??) or to politicians (who are all just greedy, self interested people anyway). Yeah, the economy may be in the toilet, but good ol' Georgie can ride it out in his mansion. He'll be alright, what does he care.

Xebedee

Yeah, try admitting to left-wing politics. The last time I said I was a socialist, I thought I was going to get lynched.

Xebedee

I just LOVE to throw the "Jesus was a Communist" line at the right wingers here. Well, he bleedin was!

Giantaxe

And yet with Fannie Mae, Ginnie Mae and FHA the US has the most socialistic mortgage market of any western country!

lapin_windstar

Jesus wasn't a Communist - "rendering unto Caeser" means ignoring the ownership of the means of production, and half the proverbs are about people faithfully serving landowners and masters.
And the Soviet Union did all three simultaneously!

simongb

There is nothing wrong with Socialism. A previous poster had mentioned the crumbling infrastructure in this country. SO TRUE! Has anyone driven in downtown Baltimore? Talk about third world. In Baltimore, which is getting more and more gridlocked by the day, they just came up with a transport plan that will take the next 30 YEARS to put in place, and that's just one metro line. Whatever! I'll be long gone by then. The fact that there is no high speed rail line (the Acela does not count) along the east coast is ridiculous. If we had the TGV here, you could get from Baltimore to NYC in about an hour. Imagine that? Public transport is a socialist idea to most americans, I guess.

snowbunny

Well... as someone who spent a lot of time as a youth studying the Bible....
the interpretation we were taught was this: Caesar was (at the time) King of the earthly government whereas God was the King of the Heavens. Jesus was saying that the laws of Caesar must be followed -- that being religious and concerning oneself primarily with the life eternal, did not mean one could disobey or ignore the laws of the government or not pay taxes.

Of course -- where the laws of the government and one's religious beliefs conflicted -- was up to the individual believer to sort out.

Sally Redux

Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.

Historically, religion has been counter-revolutionary by focussing on the next life rather than this.

lapin_windstar

"...the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, ... the spirit of spiritless conditions. It is the opiate of the people."
Exactly - what kind of Communist would say that?

Meanwhile, back on the topic of the economy, here's what Krugman has to say (it's like what I said before, except smarter, clearer and doesn't use the words "spunking" or "tat"): http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/25/op...on&oref=slogin

snowbunny

Interesting.... too bad both kids aren't dependents every year on my tax return or I could have gotten the rebate for both of them. As I read it, since their dad will likely exceed the cap, he won't get a rebate for one child (each of us carries one of them as a dependent, swapping them every year which creates pure tax hell).

Xebedee

The Soviet Union was never really Communist (they never left the first phase where the Govt. controlled all whilst the people sort of "got the hang of it".)

Remember that rich bloke who asked Jesus how he could get to heaven? Now, a capitalist wouldn't say give away all your wealth would he? Then there was the whole "moneylenders in the Temple" thing. Hardly the action of a right-winger. Now, he did raise Lazarus, who had a bit of moolah, but I reckon he was just being even-handed because he spent so much time with the poor. Speaking of which, the whole Sermon on the Mount is all about the poor and needy. He doesn't exactly extol the virtues of being well-heeled anywhere in the Bible that I can think of.

From all that its clear to deduce that all Capitalists will have pretty hot botties come the revolution.

*Bless*