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US border Exit control program being enhanced

US border Exit control program being enhanced

Old May 21st 2013, 10:33 pm
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Default US border Exit control program being enhanced

The US-Canadian border is one of the firsts in the country to have some sort of formalized 'exit control' for the US, sharing data with Canada to determine who overstayed (and who is going to get a travel ban). The success of the program might be expanded to other countries who agree to share data.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/us...ef=global-home
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Old May 22nd 2013, 12:52 am
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Default Re: US border Exit control program being enhanced

The effort relies on an ingenious solution: as foreigners leave the United States to enter Canada — and their passports are checked by the border authorities there — the information is sent back to the United States and recorded as the official “exit” record.
What a revolutionary innovation ! Who'd have thought !!!
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Old May 22nd 2013, 2:47 am
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Default Re: US border Exit control program being enhanced

I guess I was under the wrong impression that if someone applied through ESTA and there wasn't a previous record of their departure on a previous visit, ESTA would deny them to travel to the US and they would have to prove that they did depart within the 90 days to get approval probably via a B2 visa application.

However it seems that ESTA gives the traveler the benefit of the doubt and authorizes travel under the visa waiver program.
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Old May 22nd 2013, 4:06 am
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Default Re: US border Exit control program being enhanced

I guess overstayers will have to leave via Mexico now
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Old May 22nd 2013, 4:17 am
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Default Re: US border Exit control program being enhanced

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
I guess overstayers will have to leave via Mexico now
Not yet. Homeland security is destroying the data and they will probably announce when they will have all exits into Canada monitored before they start the real program. I suspect they don't want to be accused by the republicans of doing something wrong and create another scandal.
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Old May 22nd 2013, 4:22 am
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Default Re: US border Exit control program being enhanced

Canada and the US have shared information for ages, I think the most recent agreements were signed in 1984 and 1985, basically one side requests it, must have a good reason, the other side makes a note and releases the information. CPIC and NCIC I think are generally available to both sides without further requests under a separate sharing agreement.

When you sign up for NEXUS you give your consent to both sides having access to your NEXUS record, ditto for an EDL/EIC.

This is one of the reasons why Canadians aren't required to have an I-94 or our passports stamped when visiting the US.
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Old May 22nd 2013, 4:26 am
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Default Re: US border Exit control program being enhanced

The article said the Mexican points of entry were just too busy and there wasn't an efficient system in place by the Mexican government.

Wonder if the US-UK might work on something.
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Old May 22nd 2013, 4:40 am
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Default Re: US border Exit control program being enhanced

Originally Posted by penguinsix View Post
The article said the Mexican points of entry were just too busy and there wasn't an efficient system in place by the Mexican government.

Wonder if the US-UK might work on something.
I didn't understand that part about that other countries could sign a similar agreement. I don't understand what that would accomplish.

Homeland Security already has airline records in and out of the US and someone crossing the border into Mexico may stay there for a while before flying out and they may not fly directly to the UK so the information could be very inaccurate.
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Old May 22nd 2013, 6:03 am
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Default Re: US border Exit control program being enhanced

Originally Posted by penguinsix View Post
Wonder if the US-UK might work on something.
They don't need to the airlines and shipping companies already submit departure manifests.
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Old May 22nd 2013, 5:38 pm
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Default Re: US border Exit control program being enhanced

Having read that article, I wonder what metric they use in deciding whether a Canadian visitor has overstayed? Because we don't have visas, don't use ESTA, don't have our passports stamped, don't use US-VISIT and don't get I-94s.

The only limit I can think of is the one year maximum in 8 CFR 214.2(b)
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Old May 22nd 2013, 7:24 pm
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Default Re: US border Exit control program being enhanced

Originally Posted by Steve_ View Post
Having read that article, I wonder what metric they use in deciding whether a Canadian visitor has overstayed? Because we don't have visas, don't use ESTA, don't have our passports stamped, don't use US-VISIT and don't get I-94s.

The only limit I can think of is the one year maximum in 8 CFR 214.2(b)
Can't Canadians can enter the US for up to 180 days on one visit? So it should be easy to determine if anyone is violating that.

Also, some people suggest not staying more than 180 days in any 12 month period. They'll also be able to track this and potentially refuse entry to any Canadians they think are spending too much time in the US. US law assumes all visitors are potential immigrants and it's up to the visitor to convince CBP of their intent.
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Old May 22nd 2013, 11:57 pm
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Default Re: US border Exit control program being enhanced

Do US citizens also get tracked and their movements recorded? I know it's paranoid, but my father was a refugee from the Russian occupation of Hungary in 1956, and he said always to watch for indications that they might not allow you to leave.

Not that I have any intention of picking up when I get overly frustrated with Texas and moving to Canada, oh no.

Last edited by Speedwell; May 23rd 2013 at 12:07 am.
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Old May 24th 2013, 4:54 pm
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Default Re: US border Exit control program being enhanced

Originally Posted by MarylandNed View Post
Can't Canadians can enter the US for up to 180 days on one visit? So it should be easy to determine if anyone is violating that.

Also, some people suggest not staying more than 180 days in any 12 month period. They'll also be able to track this and potentially refuse entry to any Canadians they think are spending too much time in the US. US law assumes all visitors are potential immigrants and it's up to the visitor to convince CBP of their intent.
Absolutely you shouldn't stay more than six months, this is an often misunderstood concept by Canadians, you shouldn't stay more than six months because (a) CBP may not consider you to have non-immigrant intent; (b) you will become resident in the US for tax purposes and (c) except in Ontario and NL you will lose your healthcare coverage.

However, the law does not say six months, the law says one year, so if you stayed, say 185 days, it's unlikely CBP would care that much and you're not going to be legally considered to have overstayed.

Anyway this is at the moment academic because the system only applies to third country nationals.

There are reasons why a Canadian may visit for longer than six months without a problem, for example, say you've been referred to a US hospital by your Canadian healthcare provider and the treatment and recovery lasts more than six months, which does happen. IRS Form 8843 covers this situation.

Or say you are a co-habiting partner.
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Old May 24th 2013, 4:57 pm
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Default Re: US border Exit control program being enhanced

Originally Posted by Speedwell View Post
Do US citizens also get tracked and their movements recorded?
Phase 3 of this plan will cover US and Canadian citizens. So they can't overstay in each other's countries. There will also be a Canadian equivalent to ESTA for third country nationals.
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