Ash UK/US

I know this probably makes me sound stupid but I guess until recently I never really thought about it.

I was watching something on the news the other day and they were talking about the US military in Germany 'keeping the peace in Europe'. OK so I know there was some deal after World War 2 but do they really still need to be in Europe now... is Germany/europe so unstable we need 'big brother' keeping it inline?

rallybug

They were there, naturally, for the same reasons as BAOR (British Army On the Rhine) - facing down the dastardly Commies.

Now? No, I don't think that there's any particular reason for US forces to still be stationed in Germany. It would probably save the DoD a lot of money if they were to close up the bases and bring the troops back to the US.

There are a number of people advocating for that, with thoughts that putting those troops into US bases may help local communities too, with more money being spent locally.

Jerseygirl

Germany is a good stepping stone to the Middle East.

rpjs

That's right, and the US put a lot of investment into logistics and other facilities into Germany during the Cold War (one of the biggest US military hospitals is there) so even if there's no security need for the US to be in Germany any more, they've got a lot of infrastructure there that supports their operations in the Middle East.

Rete

JG has it in one. They are no longer there as "big brother" as you call it to maintain peace in Europe or to assist in the rebuilding of devastated areas in Germany, France, etc.

Their presence also helps the foreign economy. After all they do live off base, purchase items at stores, eat at restaurants, vacation in other areas of Europe.

Looks as if it is a win-win situation for all concerned from MPOV

rallybug

But wouldn't it be more of a win for America if those troops were spending their money off-base within the US?

The logistics for the Middle East war(s) makes sense - after all, at one point in the 1980s the UK was a very large aircraft carrier for the US armed forces

Jerseygirl

I don't think where the troops spend their money comes into the equation...it's all about oil and Israel.

Rete

No, I don't believe the purpose of military troops is to be barracked within its own country's borders.

Let's not get into a pissing contest here.

penguinsix

The difference between basing the troops in Europe vs. basing the troops in the USA is a rounding error in the defense budget. It's really not that huge of an amount when you just factor in the logistics of having them there rather than here.

Now, the difference between having the troops in Europe and totally decomissioning those units is quite a bit higher, needless to say.

It was frequently discussed during the cold war and the CBO ran some numbers on it:

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/84xx/doc8483/87-CBO-003.pdf

There was another report in 2004 I found:

http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=5415&type=0&sequence=1

I think the last report said it would save about $1 billion per year or something like that. Rounding error.

Octang Frye

This.

Logistical waypoint, for men and materiel.

sir_eccles

Somewhat connected, a friend told me today that the US military spend more on air conditioning in Iraq and Afghanistan ($20.2 billion per year) that it did on NASA last year ($18.7 billion).

lyonsden1193

I think that the thing that is forgotten here is if the USA removes its European bases, The Eastern block will soon re-form and will be knocking on the door. Sadly Europe has a bad reputation of not being willing to put out the money to defend itself. IMO It seems only Britain and Germany are willing to take the financial hit, and have to drag the rest behind kicking and screaming.
The other aspect to this is, the USA has its own agenda in this world and must protect its own interests. NATO is a perfect lesson in running stuff by committee.

As far as Brits are concerned I think we all need to look back in our history books. We once were... what the USA is, The world's policeman. Sometimes for the good and sometimes not. I seem to remember 2 way family favourites on the radio, BFPO and all that!. Cyprus, The Rhine and lots of other places I can't remember. The cost of keeping troops anywhere has to be offset by the cost of you turning your light off tonight and waking up tomorrow knowing you can walk out of your front door safely.
Anyway whats a billion or two between friends.. hell you see more than that wasted everyday by our friends on Wall St.

sorry gotta stop, she wants the persil out of my soap box!

ian-mstm

Well, y'know what they say... a billion here, a billion there - pretty soon it adds up to real money!

Ian

Ash UK/US

That was my understanding of it but that is certainly not the way it was put over on the news they were 'keeping the peace in europe'.

lyonsden1193

Given that Europe does tend to divide into 2 when there is a possible fight, there still may be some merit to that thought.