Unwarranted snooping
Jan 10th 2006, 10:12 am
#31
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,578
Re: Unwarranted snooping
Originally Posted by franc11s
Not to me it's not 
I'm not giving up on that. You see that's the problem - your argument is sound but your reasoning is, well to be honest, Cr*p. You have to resort to comparing us to CHINA and Korea and Iran. Can you see how illogical that is? Really do you believe this is the step in THAT direction because of a little wire tapping for what is believed to be in the best interest of the country?
The REAL world is we have a congress that can DO NOTHING. They are so divided we as a country get NOTHING done. The REAL world is we have people living here that would DIE to take out 50,000 Americans (the possible number that could have died in the WTC).
I'm open to fair debate and I'm open to being wrong BUT NOT with unreasonable logic. Tell me this, what would YOU do here as president? Because given congress, nothing you wanted to do, would get done. This has nothing to do with the constitution but with someone that has the balls to try something to see if it works. We have checks and balances. Bush knew this would come out eventually. He took the risk that he believed was worth taking. I DO NOT FOR ONE think my civil liberties have been take away. I in fact, think they have gotten better.
I'm not giving up on that. You see that's the problem - your argument is sound but your reasoning is, well to be honest, Cr*p. You have to resort to comparing us to CHINA and Korea and Iran. Can you see how illogical that is? Really do you believe this is the step in THAT direction because of a little wire tapping for what is believed to be in the best interest of the country?
The REAL world is we have a congress that can DO NOTHING. They are so divided we as a country get NOTHING done. The REAL world is we have people living here that would DIE to take out 50,000 Americans (the possible number that could have died in the WTC).
I'm open to fair debate and I'm open to being wrong BUT NOT with unreasonable logic. Tell me this, what would YOU do here as president? Because given congress, nothing you wanted to do, would get done. This has nothing to do with the constitution but with someone that has the balls to try something to see if it works. We have checks and balances. Bush knew this would come out eventually. He took the risk that he believed was worth taking. I DO NOT FOR ONE think my civil liberties have been take away. I in fact, think they have gotten better.
Your argument is the illogical one and completely wrong on so many levels, it just doesn't make sense.
You're saying we should skirt around the checks and balances so that the an administration (any administration) can do what it wants - that is foolish and dangerous.
If I was the President I would work my hardest to make sure the security services had what it needed to do its job within the boundaries of the law.
EDIT: I just realised you're the poster of the 'big brother' thread with all those lunatic arguments in support of more surveillance. You *really* need to read that book I suggested.
Last edited by anotherlimey; Jan 10th 2006 at 10:23 am.
Jan 10th 2006, 10:15 am
#32
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 68,280
Re: Unwarranted snooping
Originally Posted by anotherlimey
You're saying we should skirt around the checks and balances so that the an administration (any administration) can do what it wants - that is foolish and dangerous.
If I was the President I would work my hardest to make sure the security services had what it needed to do its job within the boundaries of the law.
If I was the President I would work my hardest to make sure the security services had what it needed to do its job within the boundaries of the law.
Jan 11th 2006, 12:59 am
#33
Pass me the Marmite..
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA.
Posts: 864
Re: Unwarranted snooping
Originally Posted by Ray
Well there's a good pipe dream
I just read this too. I was beiginning to think I was alone in my "illogical thinking" :
Poll finds U.S. split over eavesdropping
A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll of 1,003 adults found that 50 percent of those polled believe it's OK to forgo warrants when ordering electronic surveillance of people suspected of having ties to terrorists abroad.
Another 46 percent said the policy is wrong, and 4 percent said they had no opinion.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/...aps/index.html
Jan 11th 2006, 1:40 am
#34
Guttural Brumerican
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: The Mile High City
Posts: 1,312
Re: Unwarranted snooping
According to my mum (authority on everything) it's not snooping if you use net curtains, it's "keeping an eye on things".
ergo: GWB should install Net Curtains at the NSA, problem solved
ergo: GWB should install Net Curtains at the NSA, problem solved
Jan 11th 2006, 1:40 am
#35
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,578
Re: Unwarranted snooping
Originally Posted by franc11s
Well put Ray.
I just read this too. I was beiginning to think I was alone in my "illogical thinking" :
Poll finds U.S. split over eavesdropping
A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll of 1,003 adults found that 50 percent of those polled believe it's OK to forgo warrants when ordering electronic surveillance of people suspected of having ties to terrorists abroad.
Another 46 percent said the policy is wrong, and 4 percent said they had no opinion.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/...aps/index.html
I just read this too. I was beiginning to think I was alone in my "illogical thinking" :
Poll finds U.S. split over eavesdropping
A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll of 1,003 adults found that 50 percent of those polled believe it's OK to forgo warrants when ordering electronic surveillance of people suspected of having ties to terrorists abroad.
Another 46 percent said the policy is wrong, and 4 percent said they had no opinion.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/...aps/index.html
I still see no good argument for it.
Jan 11th 2006, 2:31 am
#36
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 68,280
Re: Unwarranted snooping
Originally Posted by anotherlimey
If they knew the problems with "unwarranted snooping" the poll would change completely.
I still see no good argument for it.
I still see no good argument for it.
Jan 11th 2006, 2:37 am
#37
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,578
Re: Unwarranted snooping
Originally Posted by Ray
You don't know how successful it is ...
I certainly know the success of warranted snooping, but a blanket authorisation for unwarranted snooping against USCs is too far.
What you're not seeing is the blanket authorisation for it against US citizens.
Last edited by anotherlimey; Jan 11th 2006 at 2:39 am.
Jan 11th 2006, 2:37 am
#38
Pass me the Marmite..
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA.
Posts: 864
Re: Unwarranted snooping
Originally Posted by Titchski
ergo: GWB should install Net Curtains at the NSA, problem solved
Jan 11th 2006, 4:27 am
#39
Through the square window
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,723
Next time you phone Blighty...
Originally Posted by Angry White Pyjamas
.... In 2002 he issued a secret Executive Order to allow the NSA to eavesdrop without a warrant on phone conversations... <snip>
Russell Tice, the NSA whistleblower who was the source for the NYT, has alleged that the the technology exists to track and sort through every domestic and international phone call as they are switched through centers, such as one in New York, and to search for key words or phrases that a terrorist might use. "If you picked the word 'jihad' out of a conversation," Tice said, "the technology exists that you focus in on that conversation, and you pull it out of the system for processing."
Link: http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/48180
Link: http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/48180
Hang on. There's a knock at my door.
Back in a se.....
Jan 12th 2006, 8:18 am
#40
Account Closed
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 8,271
Re: Next time you phone Blighty...
Originally Posted by Webbie
Next time you phone Blighty throw a few "jihad's" into the coversation:
Yeah ? Whatch'a gonna do DHS ? Ship me of to Gitmo ?
Hang on. There's a knock at my door.
Back in a se.....
Yeah ? Whatch'a gonna do DHS ? Ship me of to Gitmo ?
Hang on. There's a knock at my door.
Back in a se.....
LOL. See you in a few years.....maybe.
Jan 15th 2006, 6:05 am
#41
Wind, earth, fire, water
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: DC metro area
Posts: 1,670
