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Universal Health Ins? The Candidates.

Universal Health Ins? The Candidates.

Old Dec 9th 2007, 12:41 pm
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Default Universal Health Ins? The Candidates.

It seems to be a crazy mess of different opinions and plans. Here is some information on each of the major players. Personally, I think Universal Health Care should be a right.

Joe Biden: he would immediately insure every child under 18, "move for catastrophic health coverage" and push health care providers to use electronic record keeping for better cost savings. He would give more leeway to states experimenting with full coverage

Hillary Clinton: would require all Americans to acquire health insurance. The plan would expand existing employer-provided health care, while also striving to provide more affordable opportunities for individuals to buy public or private insurance

Christopher Dodd: authored the 1993 Family Medical Leave Act, which allows workers to take time off without pay to care for a sick child or family member - Dodd has said that if he is elected president, he will make health care legislation to cover all Americans a priority.

John Edwards: would provide tax credits for low-income families, expand Medicare and federal health care for children and create a federal health insurance agency that would eventually replace private health insurance.

Rudolph Giuliani: a health care plan that would move away from the current model of employer-provided health care by providing tax exemptions to families or individuals who buy their own insurance.

Mike Gravel: Gravel supports universal health care by means of a single-payer voucher system. Under his proposal, every American would receive vouchers according to his or her anticipated needs.

Mike Huckabee: He is against universal health insurance coverage and says that the U.S. needs a system "where there are incentives for healthy behavior and for management of one's health-care expenses

Duncan Hunter: Hunter has supported the Bush administration's strategy for controlling health care costs.

Dennis Kucinich: favors universal health care and has proposed expanding Medicare to cover all Americans, eliminating for-profit insurance companies. He has said that currently "Americans are paying for universal health care. They're just not getting it." Kucinich has called health care coverage "a basic right in a Democratic society."

John McCain: McCain's health care plan calls for tax exemptions for individuals and families to purchase health insurance and also calls for taking steps to increase competition in the insurance industry to drive down prices

Barack Obama: Obama proposes a national health care plan that would allow individuals and businesses to buy health care that is similar to what is available to federal employees

Ron Paul: The solutions (to our health care issues), he argued, lie in allowing individuals to deduct from their taxes all of their health care costs, as businesses do, and in promoting "true competition" in the market for health care provisions.

Bill Richardson: if he were elected president and more Democrats were in Congress, he would enact universal health care coverage within the first year of his administration. To achieve this, he would offer tax credits for buying insurance and an option for 55-64-year-olds to buy coverage through Medicare

W. Mitt Romney: proposes a state-by-state approach to health care reform, in which the federal government would provide incentives for states to make health insurance more affordable. He supports making health insurance more affordable by making the market more competitive

Fred Thompson: Thompson has criticized "socialized medicine" proposals, saying that national health care systems in Canada and England are "coming apart at the seams." He supports President Bush's call for electronic medical record keeping to save money, reduce medical errors and keep insurance premiums down
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Old Dec 9th 2007, 4:47 pm
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Default Re: Universal Health Ins? The Candidates.

so basically the only person who wants universal health care is Kucinich

since this is my most important subject and no-one who can be realistically elected is in favour of it i am going the selfish route

i hate rudy giuliani on a personal level, but since he is not likely to rape me on taxes and is pro-choice, in favour of gay marriage I think i would have to support him

i can't beleive I just typed that
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Old Dec 9th 2007, 4:49 pm
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Default Re: Universal Health Ins? The Candidates.

Originally Posted by BritGuyTN View Post
so basically the only person who wants universal health care is Kucinich

since this is my most important subject and no-one who can be realistically elected is in favour of it i am going the selfish route

i hate rudy giuliani on a personal level, but since he is not likely to rape me on taxes and is pro-choice, in favour of gay marriage I think i would have to support him

i can't beleive I just typed that
So you are now officially out of the closet?
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Old Dec 9th 2007, 5:01 pm
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Default Re: Universal Health Ins? The Candidates.

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
So you are now officially out of the closet?
as a republican?

i was always tory in the UK, just got confused about social/religious issues making it into politics over here

as to the other, i'm not sure my wife would be too happy if that were the case after the effort she went through this morning
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Old Dec 9th 2007, 5:08 pm
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Default Re: Universal Health Ins? The Candidates.

Originally Posted by BritGuyTN View Post
i hate rudy giuliani on a personal level, but since he is not likely to rape me on taxes and is pro-choice, in favour of gay marriage I think i would have to support him

i can't beleive I just typed that
Not Republican, not that some do not qualify under both headings.
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Old Dec 9th 2007, 5:33 pm
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Default Re: Universal Health Ins? The Candidates.

Originally Posted by BritGuyTN View Post
so basically the only person who wants universal health care is Kucinich

since this is my most important subject and no-one who can be realistically elected is in favour of it i am going the selfish route

i hate rudy giuliani on a personal level, but since he is not likely to rape me on taxes and is pro-choice, in favour of gay marriage I think i would have to support him

i can't beleive I just typed that
Healthcare is my most important personal issue too, but I would not vote for a republican (other than Ron Paul) because of foreign policy issues. I'd rather pay more taxes than have a president perpetuate the 'fear of foreigners' that our current administration is spreading, not to mention their acceptance of torture. Only Ron Paul (among Republicans) has admitted that current policy is causing more hatred towards the US. For some reason, that simple truth is considered heresy by the rest of them.

I'm paying way less taxes that I did in UK. I'm happy to pay taxes if it goes to useful causes.

The answer for me is simple - a vote for Hillary gets Bill back in the White House, and he was the best president this country had in a long time. I don't care what he did with miss Lewinsky, if Hillary doesn't! Hillary has a personal commitment to health care, she's just treading carefully this time because she got slammed last time she tried to deal with it. Any candidate can promise to introduce universal healthcare, but the actual president will have to deal with the realities of the healthcare and insurance companies, who are incredibly powerful and influential.

The two most pressing needs, in my opinion, are insuring the poor / unemployed / underemployed, and, insuring those over 50 but under 65 who need private healthcare but get turned down due to 'pre-existing conditions'. As long as I'm employed, I'm happy to pay whatever premiums are thrown at me because they don't represent a big % of my overall income. But I want to retire soon, and private insurance is a whole other ball-game, which is wrong.
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Old Dec 9th 2007, 5:54 pm
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Default Re: Universal Health Ins? The Candidates.

They are all a bunch of numpties....they talk the talk, badly, but they need to show how they will do what they plan, and how they can afford to put the medical insurance industry on the spot light for being crap and show how they won't fob things off once elected by how much what lobbyist has donated to them etc.
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Old Dec 9th 2007, 6:19 pm
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Default Re: Universal Health Ins? The Candidates.

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
........I'm paying way less taxes that I did in UK.......
And you also live in CA

We pay WAY more here than in the UK......... and get Fluck-all for it...
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Old Dec 9th 2007, 8:09 pm
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Default Re: Universal Health Ins? The Candidates.

Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
Healthcare is my most important personal issue too, but I would not vote for a republican (other than Ron Paul) because of foreign policy issues. I'd rather pay more taxes than have a president perpetuate the 'fear of foreigners' that our current administration is spreading, not to mention their acceptance of torture. Only Ron Paul (among Republicans) has admitted that current policy is causing more hatred towards the US. For some reason, that simple truth is considered heresy by the rest of them.

I'm paying way less taxes that I did in UK. I'm happy to pay taxes if it goes to useful causes.

The answer for me is simple - a vote for Hillary gets Bill back in the White House, and he was the best president this country had in a long time. I don't care what he did with miss Lewinsky, if Hillary doesn't! Hillary has a personal commitment to health care, she's just treading carefully this time because she got slammed last time she tried to deal with it. Any candidate can promise to introduce universal healthcare, but the actual president will have to deal with the realities of the healthcare and insurance companies, who are incredibly powerful and influential.
.
I do agree to a certain extent about foreign policy and I do like ron pauls non-interventionist policies

in fact he would be my #1 pick for el presidente, but hes not a realistic choice IMO

If i really thought that a vote for hillary would have bill back in charge, that would be one thing since I have utmost respect for him and his past tenure, but unfortuntately I really think she will be doing things her way and she panders too much to lobbyists etc who i think have a huge influence on her

I really think that once bush is out, any rational president, repiublican or democrat will be a lot more reasonable with regards to foreign policy, if romney or giuliani got in I think they would be far too smart to do something bush-style

with regards to expiration of taxes, theres two aspects to this

1. general taxes (these could go up or down under either party but more likely up under the democrats)

2. expiration of the bush tax cuts with regards to capital gains

the second would impact me SIGNIFICANTLY because of the business I chose to start. over the next 10 years it could well cost me over quarter of a million if they expire automatically or are repealed as John Edwards wants to do

thats too much at stake for me personally to support a democratic candidate who does not have a a plan for a universal health care plan - not some crappy one based on tax credits etc utilizing the same ****ed up health insurance system

if bush was running for a second term then as you can imagine even considering voting republican would not be an option
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Old Dec 9th 2007, 8:28 pm
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Default Re: Universal Health Ins? The Candidates.

Originally Posted by Elvira View Post
And you also live in CA

We pay WAY more here than in the UK......... and get Fluck-all for it...
Well, I have to confess, I don't pay too much attention any more. Looking up the actual figures now: Marginal Fed tax rate on taxable income over $74k was 28% in 2006. Marginal CA State tax rate on taxable income over 43k was 9.3%. So the MARGINAL tax I'm paying on every taxable income dollar over $74k is about 37%. Since my taxable income is reduced significantly by mortgage interest, 401k contributions, etc, and since the marginal rate only applies to the amounts over the threshhold, my actual, effective tax paid last year was (looking up my turbo-tax records now....) 18% Federal and 6.6% State. So my complete 'tax paid divided by total income earned' was about 24.6%. To me, that's the only figure you can compare - actual tax paid as a fraction of total income. So the "California Penalty" is 6.6%. One good raise and you covered it.

Is that good or bad, compared to UK? I no longer know. Paying about 25% tax seems ok to me. I didn't come here for tax purposes, and would not return to England if taxes were reduced there at this point. The bottom line is, I have money left over at the end of the day to enjoy the beautiful environment I live in, and for that I am seriously thankful and grateful.

Do I get anything for it? I got a bit of unemployment last year (out of work 6 weeks after 23 years of continuous employment, I deserved it ), I get roads to drive on, I get a great state university system, I get a local govt. that issues tax credits for hybrids, that offers medi-cal to poor people, that recognizes domestic partnerships in addition to marriage, etc. I'd rather pay 6.6% to live in compasionate, liberal CA than sweat it out in some right-wing redneck state that has no tax.

Last edited by Steerpike; Dec 9th 2007 at 8:35 pm.
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Old Dec 9th 2007, 8:29 pm
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Default Re: Universal Health Ins? The Candidates.

Originally Posted by BritGuyTN View Post
I do agree to a certain extent about foreign policy and I do like ron pauls non-interventionist policies

in fact he would be my #1 pick for el presidente, but hes not a realistic choice IMO

If i really thought that a vote for hillary would have bill back in charge, that would be one thing since I have utmost respect for him and his past tenure, but unfortuntately I really think she will be doing things her way and she panders too much to lobbyists etc who i think have a huge influence on her

I really think that once bush is out, any rational president, repiublican or democrat will be a lot more reasonable with regards to foreign policy, if romney or giuliani got in I think they would be far too smart to do something bush-style

with regards to expiration of taxes, theres two aspects to this

1. general taxes (these could go up or down under either party but more likely up under the democrats)

2. expiration of the bush tax cuts with regards to capital gains

the second would impact me SIGNIFICANTLY because of the business I chose to start. over the next 10 years it could well cost me over quarter of a million if they expire automatically or are repealed as John Edwards wants to do

thats too much at stake for me personally to support a democratic candidate who does not have a a plan for a universal health care plan - not some crappy one based on tax credits etc utilizing the same ****ed up health insurance system

if bush was running for a second term then as you can imagine even considering voting republican would not be an option
All good points! I don't have your specific (and enviable) challenges, but I respect your reasoning!
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Old Dec 10th 2007, 10:19 pm
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Default Re: Universal Health Ins? The Candidates.

Health could be fixed without a huge government Bureaucracy .

1. Stop Trial Lawyers

2. Change the law and allow people to buy coverage across State and possible Internal lines .

3 allow health saving accounts .

4. Change immigration laws in Regards to doctors thus more Doctors ore supply the cost will go down .

The US government is never good at running large programs so i think that if there is socialized Med program it will turn are hospitals into DMVs

i think they should try addressing the root causes of way health care is so expensive and stop trying to just through money at it
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Old Dec 10th 2007, 11:19 pm
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Default Re: Universal Health Ins? The Candidates.

Originally Posted by Michaelmike5556 View Post
Health could be fixed without a huge government Bureaucracy .

1. Stop Trial Lawyers

They should not be stopped all together. Some of them have merit especially in malpractice.

2. Change the law and allow people to buy coverage across State and possible Internal lines .

Which insurance doesn't allow for this. Mine allows me to go to any physician across the nation as long as they are a network physician. You may be referring to HMO style which really sucks. Mine is a PPO.

3 allow health saving accounts .

They do allow for health savings accounts. These are abbreviated FSA. You can set a pre tax dollor to be withdrawn to cover health expenses.

4. Change immigration laws in Regards to doctors thus more Doctors ore supply the cost will go down.

I'm afraid economic theory doesn't apply here. There is actually a shortage of health care workers. If anything the main factor that raises the cost of health care is the ability for medical facilities to charge exorbitant rates because health insurance companies charge US exorbitant rates. We need to deal with insurance companies. Not immigration law regarding physicians.

The US government is never good at running large programs so i think that if there is socialized Med program it will turn are hospitals into DMVs

i think they should try addressing the root causes of way health care is so expensive and stop trying to just through money at it.

That does ring true. We need to have transparency between health care lobbies and politicians. Those relationships need to be addressed first and foremost.
...

Last edited by ugacrew; Dec 11th 2007 at 12:42 am.
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Old Dec 11th 2007, 12:39 am
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Default Re: Universal Health Ins? The Candidates.

Originally Posted by ugacrew View Post
...
a fair chunk are stuck with HMO though....and that does suck.
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Old Dec 11th 2007, 12:41 am
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Default Re: Universal Health Ins? The Candidates.

Originally Posted by Bob View Post
a fair chunk are stuck with HMO though....and that does suck.
It does. I had the choice between HMO and PPO and my decision was immediate. Why the others at my job went with HMO is beyond my comprehension.
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