lairdside

That was my point (put less clearly) above. Surely, politics and echoes of pass oppression aside, the Ukraine is a geographical region - just as the British Isles are - and also a governmental system, just as the Republic of Ireland is?

Ukraine is also a country.

Ironic that the "the" being dropped in this instance may be taken as a sign of nationalism. Irish Nationalists refer not to ROI and NI but "The North of Ireland" and "The South of Ireland" as they consider the division to be artificial.

With reference to the irritated poster ....it really is all bollox. I know several Ukranians. None of them have the issues with Russians this irritated poster has. One of them is married to a Russian.

Yes it was awful. Yes Ukraine (finally) got it's independence. Now, go forth, have a happy life and GET OVER IT

Daxpeace

Having lived in Ukraine for the past 2 1/2 I have found it very amusing when journalists and tourists mistakenly call Ukraine "The Ukraine." I think it's hilarious, and shows that the person speaking really doesn't know whereof they speak.

Manc

And how was life in the Ukraine? What did you do in the Ukraine?
How come you left the Ukraine?

just wondering, I mean I am just fascinated by the Ukraine.

hjb

sorry to interject with a serious question - I just posted a question in the Europe forum 'cos I'm moving to Ukraine next month. What are your likes/dislikes/tips etc.? Specifically I'll be in Slavutych.

Thanks

jambo_2004

Intresting. Firstly if you think it's hilarious you need to get out and maybe take in a stand up comedy show or buy an Eddie Izzard DVD...it will probably kill you though. I'm curious as to what place these 2 tourists a year think they are talking about? Is there another place with the word Ukraine in it's title?

jambo_2004

Good point. Only conflict I could think of would be if an Irishman refered to himself as from the Brtish Isles and people started refering to him as British.

fatbrit

Only time will tell whether they can get over. Most of the other Soviet Block countries to the west flirted with nationalistic, dictatorial leaders after their revolutions, then came round to the realization that this wasn’t going to actually get them anywhere. Their economies are now steaming ahead, albeit usually held together with a fragile coalition. However, they had one great advantage over Ukraine: they had all experienced some form of open, democratic government and economic success during the interwar period, a time close enough to be remembered by the older generation. Ukrainians have travelled through serfdom, communism and then into nationalism. I think it will probably take a few generations…

lairdside

You can be both British and Irish.

I am, being Northern Irish. No conflict as far as I am concerned (although others feel differently).

lairdside

It was a personal "get over it" rather than a national one but I think you knew that

The little I know of Ukrainian history, from the Cossacks and their resistance to the Turks (sorry, I know very little prior to this) through the Soviet rule including the genocide committed by Stalin and Kaganovich, to more recent times, seem to me to have been very difficult times.

However the Ukranian people have endured. Imho they are a strong, proud people and will continue to do so. You may well be correct, it may take a few generations but I am sure that the Ukranian people will continue to do whatever it takes - I don't believe that they know how to give up.

fatbrit

Yes! Even stubborn might describe it, but in the nicest possible sense.

jambo_2004

Yeah I know that NI is a British province. I was thinking more from a southern ireland viewpoint.

lairdside

But.... Ireland isn't part of the British Isles, never was. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The Republic of Ireland was formerly part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

doctor scrumpy

The British Isles include all the islands that compose Britian. Therefore Eire is part of the British Isles. It was so much easier in the days when 1/6th of the globe was a lovely shade of red !

lairdside

You are right of course Scrumpy.

I was thinking of the term British Islands which has been applied since the 1978 Interpretation Act to denote those lands within the British Isles which are inhabited by British citizens, i.e. the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.

Mea culpa.

Manc

I always considered the term "British Isles" to include Eire because it was a geographical term rather than political. Akin to Iberian Peninsular including Portugal.