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UK state pension and USA social security

UK state pension and USA social security

Old Oct 23rd 2017, 4:00 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
I found this current advice for 2017:

"In 2017, Social Security recipients who earn more than $16,920 will have $1 withheld for every $2 earned above that limit. Recipients who turn their full retirement age this year can earn up to $44,880, but their benefit is reduced by $1 for every $3 earned above this higher limit."
You missed an important bit off that, namely:

"However, once you turn full retirement age, you can earn any amount without having your benefit withheld, and Social Security payments are recalculated to give you credit for any withheld benefits."

I don't know that exact math, but my reading of this is that the reduction prior to full retirement age is essentially a deferment.

Last edited by Giantaxe; Oct 23rd 2017 at 4:05 pm.
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Old Oct 23rd 2017, 4:06 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
You missed an important bit off that, namely:

"However, once you turn full retirement age, you can earn any amount without having your benefit withheld, and Social Security payments are recalculated to give you credit for any withheld benefits."

I don't know that exact math, but my reading of this is that the reduction is essentially a deferment.
I thought that was what the higher limit of $44,880 was about.

So are you saying that there's one limit for people who take SS early, higher limit for the year they reach full retirement age, and no limit in subsequent years?
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Old Oct 23rd 2017, 4:15 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
I thought that was what the higher limit of $44,880 was about.
That is for the year that you reach your full retirement age.

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
So are you saying that there's one limit for people who take SS early, higher limit for the year they reach full retirement age, and no limit in subsequent years?
Correct.
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Old Oct 23rd 2017, 6:03 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Are these limits just for earned income or does it include passive income?
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Old Oct 23rd 2017, 6:07 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
That is for the year that you reach your full retirement age.



Correct.
I read that if one is outside of the country there is a strict limit to how many hours one can work if one takes early social security, but cant find the article again.

I find the whole issue of paying a benefit, then taking some back if you work, and all the seemingly arcane calculations, just a complicated mess for which there must be a better solution.
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Old Oct 23rd 2017, 6:11 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by mrken30 View Post
Are these limits just for earned income or does it include passive income?
Earned income only.
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Old Oct 23rd 2017, 6:14 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
..... I find the whole issue of paying a benefit, then taking some back if you work, and all the seemingly arcane calculations, just a complicated mess for which there must be a better solution.
Well making it means-tested would be more honest, because that is what they're trying to move towards, without actually making it means-tested.
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Old Oct 23rd 2017, 6:18 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
I find the whole issue of paying a benefit, then taking some back if you work, and all the seemingly arcane calculations, just a complicated mess for which there must be a better solution.
It seems it's deferred, not strictly taken back.
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Old Oct 23rd 2017, 6:33 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
It seems it's deferred, not strictly taken back.
It's also worth noting that if the SSA withholds your benefits and keeps you from double dipping between Social Security income and working wages, you don't lose your benefits forever. Once you cross full retirement age, you'll get them back in the form of a higher monthly payout.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...018/106907866/

Working Overseas

If you are under full retirement age, we withhold benefits for every month you work more than 45 hours outside the United States in employment or self-employment (not subject to U.S. Social Security taxes).

It doesn't matter how much you earned or how many hours you worked each day. You will be considered to be working on any day you:

Work as an employee or self-employed person;
Have an agreement to work even if you do not actually work because of sickness, vacation, etc.; or
Are the owner or part owner of a trade or business even if you do not actually work in the trade or business or receive any income from it.
Generally, if your benefits are withheld because of your work, we cannot pay benefits to anyone else receiving benefits on your record for that month. However, the work of others receiving benefits on your record affects only their own benefits.

https://www.ssa.gov/hlp/isba/10/hlp-...arnwg2-for.htm

https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/whileworking.html

Last edited by mrken30; Oct 23rd 2017 at 6:36 pm.
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Old Oct 23rd 2017, 6:53 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by mrken30 View Post
It's also worth noting that if the SSA withholds your benefits and keeps you from double dipping between Social Security income and working wages, you don't lose your benefits forever. Once you cross full retirement age, you'll get them back in the form of a higher monthly payout.
That is what I have already pointed out... twice!
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Old Oct 24th 2017, 3:21 am
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by mrken30 View Post
It's also worth noting that if the SSA withholds your benefits and keeps you from double dipping between Social Security income and working wages, you don't lose your benefits forever. Once you cross full retirement age, you'll get them back in the form of a higher monthly payout.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...018/106907866/

Working Overseas

If you are under full retirement age, we withhold benefits for every month you work more than 45 hours outside the United States in employment or self-employment (not subject to U.S. Social Security taxes).

It doesn't matter how much you earned or how many hours you worked each day. You will be considered to be working on any day you:

Work as an employee or self-employed person;
Have an agreement to work even if you do not actually work because of sickness, vacation, etc.; or
Are the owner or part owner of a trade or business even if you do not actually work in the trade or business or receive any income from it.
Generally, if your benefits are withheld because of your work, we cannot pay benefits to anyone else receiving benefits on your record for that month. However, the work of others receiving benefits on your record affects only their own benefits.

https://www.ssa.gov/hlp/isba/10/hlp-...arnwg2-for.htm

https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/whileworking.html
Thanks , that is what I read was referring too. Pretty outrageous I think- so if I wanted to take early social security, I couldn't work over 45 hours a month, or own a business.
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Old Oct 24th 2017, 1:31 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by mrken30 View Post
It's also worth noting that if the SSA withholds your benefits and keeps you from double dipping between Social Security income and working wages, you don't lose your benefits forever. Once you cross full retirement age, you'll get them back in the form of a higher monthly payout.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...018/106907866/

Working Overseas

If you are under full retirement age, we withhold benefits for every month you work more than 45 hours outside the United States in employment or self-employment (not subject to U.S. Social Security taxes).

It doesn't matter how much you earned or how many hours you worked each day. You will be considered to be working on any day you:

Work as an employee or self-employed person;
Have an agreement to work even if you do not actually work because of sickness, vacation, etc.; or
Are the owner or part owner of a trade or business even if you do not actually work in the trade or business or receive any income from it.
Generally, if your benefits are withheld because of your work, we cannot pay benefits to anyone else receiving benefits on your record for that month. However, the work of others receiving benefits on your record affects only their own benefits. ....
Well that's clearly a disincentive to retire early, but as they push the age for "full" retirement older and older it is inevitable that they would also want to discourage early retirement.

Frankly I am surprised that the age for early retirement isn't being increased lock-step with the increase in the age for full retirement.

Last edited by Pulaski; Oct 24th 2017 at 1:33 pm.
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Old Oct 24th 2017, 1:42 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

So it occurred to me, if I am working between 62 and 67, should I claim SSI at age 62? Would the increased deferred payment be more than the 8% if you just defer claiming until age 67. Five years of back payments should amount to a bit.
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Old Oct 24th 2017, 1:45 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by mrken30 View Post
So it occurred to me, if I am working between 62 and 67, should I claim SSI at age 62? Would the increased deferred payment be more than the 8% if you just defer claiming until age 67. Five years of back payments should amount to a bit.
A lot will depend on how long you expect to live. I heard the other day that if you are healthy at 60 there is a now very good chance you will reach 90. If you don't expect to reach more than 75-80 then drawing early is the optimal decision.
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Old Oct 24th 2017, 2:53 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
A lot will depend on how long you expect to live. I heard the other day that if you are healthy at 60 there is a now very good chance you will reach 90. If you don't expect to reach more than 75-80 then drawing early is the optimal decision.
I heard the other day that in 50% of couples, one partner will live to age 92.
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