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UK state pension and USA social security

UK state pension and USA social security

Old Mar 9th 2015, 10:19 pm
  #631  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by jb82 View Post
You shot yourself in the foot. 'Say you earn'.... you just based it on earnings. Say I earn 2k for 50 years. I get nothing. Yet I contributed for longer than both your examples. So no it is not based solely on years of contributions. It is based on years of contributions that are based on earnings above a certain level. You have to earn something to get it. So it is based on earnings.

a) Yes you do. The ways you can get it without earning are exceptions to the rule and are excluded from WEP. EDIT Not sure about pre 1975.

b) Linear is the wrong word I simply meant you claim there has to be a direct relationship between size of pension and earnings. I am saying that it it can be based on earnings if you have to earn something to get it. What part of the legislation states the pension must vary by level of earnings? I believe it simply says based on non covered earnings which means ANY relationship to earnings.

c) You make contributions by earning! The exceptions are exceptions to the rule and don't fall under WEP anyway.
See Post 627.
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Old Mar 9th 2015, 10:35 pm
  #632  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by dunroving View Post
See Post 627.
I think the default position then is to assume you get wep-ed on it unless someone proves otherwise.
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Old Mar 9th 2015, 10:39 pm
  #633  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by lansbury View Post
Unless the only pension you get from the UK is the State pension it really doesn't matter. My wife will claim her SS next month for payment in July. He UK University pension alone takes her up to the maximum WEP. Likewise my police pension will do the same for me. Taking our UK State pensions into account makes no difference, so no point in trying Nun's argument on them.
I agree, I expect to be max'ed out on WEP with my UK private pension, but these discussions are interesting/entertaining.
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Old Mar 9th 2015, 10:51 pm
  #634  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

What is the maximum WEP?
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Old Mar 9th 2015, 11:06 pm
  #635  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by IRJ View Post
What is the maximum WEP?
Maximum Monthly Amount Your Benefit May Be Reduced Because Of The Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP)

2015 $413.00

Retirement Planner: How the Windfall Elimination Provision Can Affect Your Social Security Benefit

It may be less depending on your Years of Substantial Earnings
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Old Mar 9th 2015, 11:07 pm
  #636  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by jb82 View Post
I think the default position then is to assume you get wep-ed on it unless someone proves otherwise.
I think that's what you think.
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Old Mar 9th 2015, 11:10 pm
  #637  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by dunroving View Post
I think that's what you think.
See post 639
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Old Mar 9th 2015, 11:32 pm
  #638  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by jb82 View Post
See post 639
Still waiting ...
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Old Mar 9th 2015, 11:49 pm
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by jb82 View Post
I think the default position then is to assume you get wep-ed on it unless someone proves otherwise.
Originally Posted by dunroving View Post
Still waiting ...
I think that is a good default position. While I'd like to think Nun is right, NI contributions are a percentage of your salary and I think the powers of the SSA will take a lot of convincing it is not related to earnings.
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Old Mar 9th 2015, 11:56 pm
  #640  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

So that was the mysterious "Post 639" we were told to see.
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Old Mar 10th 2015, 4:41 pm
  #641  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

FWIW I tend to agree with jb82. I think there's a certain amount of wishful thinking going on about the UK pension not being subject to WEP.

Until someone has gone through the process and shown that nun's argument is valid, I remain very skeptical.

I will say that it's a very clever argument, though!
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Old Mar 10th 2015, 6:31 pm
  #642  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

The problem re WEP is being compounded by what looks to be a certain amount of confusion at Social Security Administration. In that they are now sitting on paperwork, for exemption status, for 1-2 years and making no decisions. I know several people in a hiatus of more than one year with no decision forthcoming...
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Old Mar 10th 2015, 6:42 pm
  #643  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Are you saying that people that are entitled to Social Security are not being paid until the WEP is figured out, or are you saying that they are receiving an un-WEP'd social security while they wait?
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Old Mar 10th 2015, 8:04 pm
  #644  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

I was thinking that a uk state pension based on class 2 national insurance might have a better chance of being non wep-able.

It is based on a flat amount of contribution that can be paid whether the person has earnings or not. If you work in the uk you also pay a separate class 4 ni contribution that is based on your earnings which is similar to class 1 contributions (but that doesn't entitle you to the pension).

There is still the point of contention that you have to pay the class 2 contributions if you earn over a certain amount and so get qualifying years via earning a certain amount.

What do you guys think? Also anyone actually had any experience of a class 2 contribution pension being weped
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Old Mar 10th 2015, 8:24 pm
  #645  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by IRJ View Post
The problem re WEP is being compounded by what looks to be a certain amount of confusion at Social Security Administration. In that they are now sitting on paperwork, for exemption status, for 1-2 years and making no decisions. I know several people in a hiatus of more than one year with no decision forthcoming...
Originally Posted by Lin_NJ View Post
Are you saying that people that are entitled to Social Security are not being paid until the WEP is figured out, or are you saying that they are receiving an un-WEP'd social security while they wait?
Whichever it is, it seems ludicrous that it should take so long to solve what should be a relatively straightforward question. It's not as if the UK state pension system is shrouded in secrecy.

I think this highlights the problem. We can continue trying to point score about what the "right answer" is or whether someone "shot themselves in the foot" in this grand debating contest, but that doesn't answer the question of what some bureaucratic numpty at US SS will decide is the answer - regardless of whether they are "right" or "wrong".

So far, TheOAP is the only person I know of who has recounted their experience with how this works in practice. I think currently, most people on the BE forum are at least a handful of years from claiming US SS pension so it will be a while before we get some sense of what to expect.
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