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UK state pension and USA social security

UK state pension and USA social security

Old Jun 19th 2013, 1:31 pm
  #166  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by nearpost1 View Post
Many thanks Nun, sorry for the Ipad induced typos.

Thank goodness I don't have to disclose the entirety of my U.K. Pension, and trust them to allocate the 19/30ths in my favor. From what I read in this thread, that could be problematic.

From what you say, this has nothing to do with my tax return, I simply have to call, or write to the department of social security.

May I run a scenario by you, just for my own peace of mind?

........

Also, not that I would dream of concealing anything, how does anyone at ss know you are receiving a U.K. Pension, and if they are aware of my U.K. pension, why would they simply take my word that 2/3rds of it is free from " The WEP penalty" ?

Finally, as ones U.K. Pension receives cost of living adjustments as the years go by, is there a mechanism in place that allows, or demands, that the recipient inform social security about the increase in the "11/30ths" subject to WEP?

Many thanks again.
My wife applied for her British State Pension about a year ago. There is a whole section of the application in which they ask you about your non-UK state pension. So for an American, you give the British authorities the postal address of the SS and your SS number, so they may routinely share the details of your British state pension with the good folks at SS..
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Old Jun 19th 2013, 4:27 pm
  #167  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Nun and Robin, thank you for those responses.
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Old Jul 9th 2013, 9:34 pm
  #168  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Help the SSA to trust you by completing their form SSA308 "Modified Benefit Formula Questionnaire-Foreign Pension"

Lines 3, 4 and 5 are where you tell the SSA what were your specific periods of voluntary contributions and other non-employment based credits (e.g. credited periods as a full time student) as well as the periods of employment on which the pension is based.

On a related point, note that, in addition to the 30 year rule, WEP should not apply to benefits earned from Jan 1995 if a person is eligible for the Social Security retirement benefit only by virtue of a totalization agreement such as in place betweeb US-UK, US-Canada, etc.

Per https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0201701305
"WEP will not apply where the number holder is:
- entitled to a U.S. totalization benefit based on coverage in both the U.S. and a totalization country coverage, or
- entitled to a regular U.S. benefit, as well as a foreign benefit which is based on a totalization agreement with the U.S., and not receiving any other pension based on non-covered work.

So a person has between 6 and 39 quarters of US coverage and receives Social Security benefits because of Totalization, the first of the above rules applies and foreign pensions do not trigger WEP. However some folks in the SSA may need help in applying their rules correctly. The SSA's Office of International Operations typically has more knowledgeable staff than the local SS Offices do, even those near the northern border who are designated to deal with applicants from Canada.

Benefits payable for months before 1/95 may still be subject to WEP.

If you continue to work in the US and hit the 40 quarter coverage level then you may become insured based on US coverage only; this could convert a Social Security Totalization benefit to a non-Totalization benefit subject to WEP. However SSA has a policy that the Totalization benefit will continue if it is more than the non-Totalization benefit. But you won't see any increase in benefits until you have enough additional quarters to offset the WEP that would be due on non-Totalization benefit. A doughnut hole if you like.

See https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0201701305

I have Canadian CPP, Canadian OAS (partly clawed back this year), a small US Social Security benefit that is not WEP'ed, and will soon be applying for my UK state pension. Not sure how to notify SSA about the UK pension yet. I am afraid they'll start WEPing the Soc. Sec. benefit if I change anything even though they shouldn't. I made self-employment FICA contributions in 2011, and asked the nearest SSA office about the increase I should get. They asked for tax returns which I sent, they still didn't answer my question, and finally told me my benefit would not change. So I gave up, dealt directly with the OIO in Maryland who sorted it out in a few days.

Regarding the reporting of UK pension increases, you wouldn't have this issue if you now lived in a country such as Australia, New Zealand, Canada,.. where the UK pensions are unfairly frozen and diminish to a paltry amount over the years, even though residents of those countries paid as much as those now in non-frozen countries. Not happy about that.

Originally Posted by nearpost1 View Post
Many thanks Nun, sorry for the Ipad induced typos.

Thank goodness I don't have to disclose the entirety of my U.K. Pension, and trust them to allocate the 19/30ths in my favor. From what I read in this thread, that could be problematic.

From what you say, this has nothing to do with my tax return, I simply have to call, or write to the department of social security.
..

Also, not that I would dream of concealing anything, how does anyone at ss know you are receiving a U.K. Pension, and if they are aware of my U.K. pension, why would they simply take my word that 2/3rds of it is free from " The WEP penalty" ?

Finally, as ones U.K. Pension receives cost of living adjustments as the years go by, is there a mechanism in place that allows, or demands, that the recipient inform social security about the increase in the "11/30ths" subject to WEP?

Many thanks again.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 2:08 pm
  #169  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by Basher7 View Post
Nun,

Sorry, I did not miss the "only" but I did create that impression in my phrasing. My mistake.

However, I still maintain that since SS is calculated using your SS wages and your contributions are based on those SS wages, your SS is effectively based upon your contributions. You can't seperate the two. Is there another calculation factor I am missing? A quick look at the SS calculation tool indicates no other factors contributing to your entitlement. Where am I going wrong?

Yes, agree on deferment, though in the UK surely that only applies if you keep working and contributing. My (mis?)understanding is that if you don't claim the UK pension at 65 when you are no longer contributing it accumulates at some interest rate over base until you do claim it. It doesn't go up though, other than cost of living increases? Right or wrong?
According to my local SS office they need to see the letter from UK Pensions with the amount you will be receiving. This I did and asked what and when do I report any funds from UK - they weren't sure. As there is going to be a small fluctuation each month depending on conversion rates, do I need to inform them every month? They don't know that either! I did not even start on the fact that UK pays every 4 weeks and not monthly like SS as it seemed way over their heads. Is anyone receiving UK pension currently and if and how they are having to report it? The exchange rate took a small dip (in our favor) just recently which will increase my UK amount. I also learned that UK pensions makes the exchange at their end and transfers the $$ to my bank and I started to wonder who's rate they are using, BOE, Giro or some scale of their own. Anyone know?
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 2:48 pm
  #170  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by jopavi73 View Post
I did not even start on the fact that UK pays every 4 weeks and not monthly like SS as it seemed way over their heads. Is anyone receiving UK pension currently and if and how they are having to report it? The exchange rate took a small dip (in our favor) just recently which will increase my UK amount. I also learned that UK pensions makes the exchange at their end and transfers the $$ to my bank and I started to wonder who's rate they are using, BOE, Giro or some scale of their own. Anyone know?
My wife gets hers every 13 weeks, which is one of the choices. Four payments a year which is convenient. She gets it deposited in our Isle of Man pound sterling bank account which means that foreign exchange is not an issue.

When you ask about reporting it, do you mean for tax purposes or for WEP? For WEP, I understand it is a simple once in a lifetime reporting and calculation on SS's part. As for tax, we just report it on line 16 of the 1040.
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Old Sep 19th 2013, 2:36 pm
  #171  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

I was on this site back in June and have since been able to resolve that issue. Social Security is not back on my case again.

I am currently receiving UK State Pension along with US SS. however, they have made a claim that they paid me too much by $354 during the period from Jan 2013 to August 2013. As I started receiving SS at 62 back in 2010, they have being paying me regularly and consistent with that owed to me.

I have been in and out of the local office asking them to provide me with a breakdown of this over payment and when it occurred, which they have not provided. I appealed and was denied with the explanation that "It was my fault that I had been over paid and it would not be a hardship for me to pay it back."

In their last letter they admitted that ..." This overpayment was due to an incorrect computation made by Social Security" This would seem to let me off the hook as far as it being my fault, however, they have denied the waiver and are still pursuing me.

It has now become a point of principal for me regardless of the amount.

Does anyone know of a "help group" or a legal help group that could assist me in this matter. I don't want to pay an attorney for something this small.

Any suggestions gladly received.
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Old Feb 2nd 2014, 1:04 am
  #172  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

I will be applying for a UK pension and also a USA pension in the next few months. I worked 13 years in the UK and also 13 years in the US so I nowhere qualify for a full pension in either countries. Is there any reason why my pension would be reduced in the US because I am received a small pension in the UK? Sorry I don't know hardly anything about this subject.
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Old Feb 2nd 2014, 1:37 am
  #173  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

As you have 40 quarters of employment in the US you should be eligible for the amount of SS quoted on the regular statements you have been receiving from SSA. The UK pension is going to be treated as a "windfall" and there is a document called the Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP for short) that has a formula for assessing to what extent your SS payments will be adjusted (downward) to compensate. Having said all that, as you have only worked a total of 26 years in the UK and USA you MAY find you will be able to receive both to the extent of your working years. You will need to get the SSA address in Baltimore where all foreign pensions are dealt with and tell them your circumstances. I don't recommend attempting this with your local SSA office as they sometimes are woefully ignorant of these circumstances. I have just been though this and it has not been simple. Do not try to hold anything back from them as the USA and UK have a treaty with regard to pensions and SS and share information.
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Old Feb 2nd 2014, 4:16 am
  #174  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by magpye View Post
I will be applying for a UK pension and also a USA pension in the next few months. I worked 13 years in the UK and also 13 years in the US so I nowhere qualify for a full pension in either countries. Is there any reason why my pension would be reduced in the US because I am received a small pension in the UK? Sorry I don't know hardly anything about this subject.
You might be able to boost your UK state pension by back paying some voluntary National Insurance Contrbutions and the fraction of your UK pension due to those would not be sbject to WEP
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Old Feb 2nd 2014, 5:30 am
  #175  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Thanks for the answers. I thought I would only be getting $460 a month from US Pension and approx £240 UK pension. which in total is a miserable $800. But after going on this website http://www.ssa.gov/retire2/anyPiaWepjs04.htm I come to find out that the US will be reducing my pension down to $301. I wasn't getting much to begin with and now they are reducing it!! How is that fair?? I have been looking after children/grandchildren and now having to spend a great deal of time in the UK looking after elderly parents. I only just found out about WEP today so this is a bit of a shock.
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Old Feb 2nd 2014, 8:06 am
  #176  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

In light of my finding out today about WEP and suddenly realizing my already small US pension is going to be reduced because I haven't worked long enough in the USA this has brought up another question. My husband has worked well over 40 years in the US and my understanding is if he was to pass away before me I would get his full US Social Security Pension. The question is would this be reduced because of my UK pension? I mean he has exceeded the required 30 years, but would my UK pension override that?
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Old Feb 2nd 2014, 10:48 am
  #177  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by magpye View Post
My husband has worked well over 40 years in the US and my understanding is if he was to pass away before me I would get his full US Social Security Pension. The question is would this be reduced because of my UK pension? I mean he has exceeded the required 30 years, but would my UK pension override that?
No, your pension (and your WEP) would not enter into a survivors benefit based on his pension. See midway down the first column on the last page of this link:

"The Windfall Elimination Provision does not apply to survivors benefits. However, benefits may be reduced for widows or widowers because of another provision of the law. Ask for Government Pension Offset (Publication No. 05-10007)."

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/EN-05-10045.pdf
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Old Feb 2nd 2014, 3:54 pm
  #178  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by magpye View Post
In light of my finding out today about WEP and suddenly realizing my already small US pension is going to be reduced because I haven't worked long enough in the USA this has brought up another question. My husband has worked well over 40 years in the US and my understanding is if he was to pass away before me I would get his full US Social Security Pension. The question is would this be reduced because of my UK pension? I mean he has exceeded the required 30 years, but would my UK pension override that?
If you have been married to your husband for over 10 years, then you can claim 50% of his SS, instead of your own. (If half of his is more than the total of yours).
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Old Feb 2nd 2014, 7:54 pm
  #179  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

How would that work..claiming 50% of my husbands pension? He's (63 right now), probably not going to start receiving his S/S pension until he is 65 or 66. It will probably be between $1900 and $2000. I will be 62 in a few months and I thought my US Pension would be $460 until I found out about WEP and it looks like it will be reduced to $300. I really don't know much about any of this and its all very confusing and frustrating.
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Old Feb 2nd 2014, 8:15 pm
  #180  
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Default Re: UK state pension and USA social security

Originally Posted by magpye View Post
How would that work..claiming 50% of my husbands pension? He's (63 right now), probably not going to start receiving his S/S pension until he is 65 or 66. It will probably be between $1900 and $2000. I will be 62 in a few months and I thought my US Pension would be $460 until I found out about WEP and it looks like it will be reduced to $300. I really don't know much about any of this and its all very confusing and frustrating.
You would get 50% of his SS when you are age 66. I think if you are 62 it would be 35%, and graduated up at different years. I don't know all the details - you would have to call SS. but I know you would get 50% of his at 66. There again.I don't know how WEP would affect this.
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