lansbury

The another person I mentioned who had problems if my memory is correct also applied at their local SS office. I applied online and it was all dealt with over the phone I assume, not at my local office but, at a centralized office. The person I dealt with was very knowledgeable about WEP.

A very insignificant sample I know, but I wonder if WEP is going to come into play not applying at a local office might be advantageous.

TiaMaria57

Thank you for your comments. Having read the many threads on this board, including from yourself lansbury, we realize with hindsight that he should have applied on-line but I fear it is too late now that he has set the wheels in motion. It's a small town and clearly they don't understand about British Pensions, or any Foreign pension for that matter in depth . The SSA guy is simply reading his POM's manual and I don't think he even understands that fully!

TiaMaria57

I hear what you say but my husband paid his own stamp in those days since he was self employed. It could be even be paid at the post office back then. It was not deducted from wages as he didn't have any wages.....just profits most of the years, but he always paid his stamp to protect his retirement.

I do wish the other person who mentioned this in his comments some time back, would come forward and give us a clue as to what happened to him personally. I do hope he reads this since we need his input.
Thank you TM

lansbury

There is a SSA office in Baltimore that deals with SS for persons living overseas. It is really for people living outside the US or thinking of leaving the US, but they may be able to answer your questions about the UK pension and WEP. At least you would have a point of reference when dealing with your local office.

The phone numbers for the Baltimore office are here. https://www.ssa.gov/foreign/phones.html

TiaMaria57

Thank you very much for this link....you make a good point and I think it's just what we need to do. We're planning to retire back in the UK in the near future anyway so we'll have other problems such as tax, etc to deal with. I would ideally like this WEP thing clarifying asap though.
TM

monkeybrains

I applied on line and then over the phone from the UK....I received an email from Baltimore asking me to call them.....I did a quick google of the name of the person who I was to call in Baltimore and they turned out to be a specialist on foreign person claims...when I did eventually get through (it took about 6 calls) the person was very knowledgeable....she did have to put me on hold for a couple of minutes to speak with the manager but quickly came back and everything was finalized in about 10 minutes.

TiaMaria57

Hi Monkeybrains......But did you get a favorable result? Did you have Pre-1975 stamps paid-up? And if so did you get WEP't on them and therefore weep? 😂
Thanks...TM

nun

It's important to understand the WEP rules for your foreign pension and SS contributions because realistically the SSA person is not going to understand the nature of those contributions. So you should write down the history and have it ready and show the amounts that should be included in WEP and those that should not and why.

Here is what I have as an example.

Foreign and non-FICA SS and Pension payments.

UK Social Security Payments, not WEPable
1978-1979 3 years NI for being a student not connected with employment.
1987-2016 30 years of voluntary NI

US state pension....non FICA wages
10 years fully WEPable.

TiaMaria57

Hi nun, Thanks for your reply. This is exactly what we have done, but our local SSA officer won't accept it. I even printed my husbands records from (on-line), DWP and he says that it's not official. It doesn't show detail Pre -1975 because computerization wasn't available then, but it does shows he has the full years. After that period it does show details but the SSA man says it's not acceptable evidience.... even though it has .gov on the heading and even states the last log in time. So, my husband has contacted HMRC and they are mailing him his records, but that will take at least a month to arrive. I just hope it shows more details of the Pre-1975 era because our local guy is loathe to accept any of it! Also I hope that HMRC's record shows details of stamps, but I doubt it will and the WEP instructions manual doesn't explain this to their officers.
Thank you for your advice. And....anyone else who may have gone through this I would dearly love to hear from them. TM

Asg123

Pension from voluntary contributions while unemployed does not reduce US SS through WEP.

ian-mstm

In that case, ask to speak to a supervisor... or go to a different office. SSA is federal - you aren't required to go to your local office.

Ian

TiaMaria57

Thank you for your reply Ian.....you have given us hope. Husband will be having his 3rd meeting with this local guy next week since it's already arranged. If no luck with the paperwork we produce as evidence so far (still waiting for HMRC's stuff), he will ask to speak with someone higher up or change offices or go on-line, as well as call Baltimore Office as has already been suggested.
TM

TiaMaria57

Hi Asg,
Out of interest why would any years of further education or unemployment voluntary contributions not reduce WEP? They are not based in whole or in part on work performed.

The POMS manual(GN 00307.290) specifically states "Payments which cannot be used to apply WEP...."
...." Some foreign pensions are not based in whole or in part on work performed after 1956. Therefore the following foreign pension payments cannot be used to apply WEP":
Some examples:
"b) Voluntary S S contributions (UK)"
"Since the basis for payment of the Australian, Israeli and New Zealand, pensions are not derived from an individuals work-related earnings, these benefits do NOT cause WEP to apply".
"Netherlands: In addition, certain individuals who have lost their job prior to having attained retirement age may qualify for a 'pre--retirement' payment. This payment is actually a form of unemployment compensation and may not be used to apply WEP"
Then it says "NOTE: The examples listed are not all-inclusive. Other countries allow voluntary contributions, pay family allowance benefits, no so on".

WEP, as I understand from the above, is earnings related. Please tell me if I am reading this wrong and why, because the manual doesn't make it crystal clear.

Asg123

WEP, if it applies, reduces your US SS. WEP applies to the part of your UK pension arising from work. It does not apply to the part of your pension arising from voluntary contributions while unemployed. So suppose you got a pension based on 15 years, 10 years employed and 5 years voluntary contributions while unemployed, WEP would apply only to the 10 years employed, or 2/3 of your pension, which may mean that your US SS may be reduced by 1/3 of the amount of your UK pension. But there are limits on the reduction, and if you've had a decent-paying job paying SS taxes in the US for over 30 years, there's no reduction at all.

TiaMaria57

Hi asg,
I apologize I did not read your original reply correctly. I interpreted your answer the other way round. You are saying exactly what we are thinking, (as per the POM manual), in that the years credited to a person by the UK gov (for whatever reason) should not have WEP applied. Thank you for confirming that. The difficulty is showing clear evidence of it to a local SSA Officer who hasn't a clue about how UK National Insurance works, never mind from year dot.
Thank you for taking your time to explain. TM