UK state pension and USA social security
#736
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: The Shire
Posts: 1,117
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
Paid gross even if the certificate of US residency not submitted? And would this also apply to a one time deferral Lump sum which is going to be in excess of UK personal allowance?
Finally, if paid gross regardless, why do they have the HMRC Form 2002 which also talks of form 8802.
Finally, if paid gross regardless, why do they have the HMRC Form 2002 which also talks of form 8802.
#737
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
Very Important re: Form 6166:
A "golden nugget" - A link the IRS fails to provide anywhere online - and utterly essential in order to obtain the certification of US residency, which must accompany Form 8802 when it's eventually received by HMRC (together with the Individual 2002): (mind-boggling, isn't it?)
***www.pay.gov ***
That's where you MUST go to access the secure site to pay for the Form 6166.
Once you go there - type: 8802 - in the search box at top (Do not click anywhere else or look anywhere else.)
After you've typed those nos. - hit 'Search'.
Then hit the red link 'Continue to the Form'.....and you're on your way.
Once you've paid (online-at the secure site) you'll receive an email confirmation with both a 'pay.gov' and an 'agency' tracking ID.
Enter both numbers in the "Electronic Payment Confirmation Number" field at the top of page 1 of the form 8802.
Send the completed forms 8802 and Individual 2002 to the Philadelphia IRS address indicated in the Instructions you've already dutifully ploughed thru
Then breathe a sigh of relief. You're done!.....
A "golden nugget" - A link the IRS fails to provide anywhere online - and utterly essential in order to obtain the certification of US residency, which must accompany Form 8802 when it's eventually received by HMRC (together with the Individual 2002): (mind-boggling, isn't it?)
***www.pay.gov ***
That's where you MUST go to access the secure site to pay for the Form 6166.
Once you go there - type: 8802 - in the search box at top (Do not click anywhere else or look anywhere else.)
After you've typed those nos. - hit 'Search'.
Then hit the red link 'Continue to the Form'.....and you're on your way.
Once you've paid (online-at the secure site) you'll receive an email confirmation with both a 'pay.gov' and an 'agency' tracking ID.
Enter both numbers in the "Electronic Payment Confirmation Number" field at the top of page 1 of the form 8802.
Send the completed forms 8802 and Individual 2002 to the Philadelphia IRS address indicated in the Instructions you've already dutifully ploughed thru
Then breathe a sigh of relief. You're done!.....
#738
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
Very Important re: Form 6166:
A "golden nugget" - A link the IRS fails to provide anywhere online - and utterly essential in order to obtain the certification of US residency, which must accompany Form 8802 when it's eventually received by HMRC (together with the Individual 2002): (mind-boggling, isn't it?)
***www.pay.gov ***
A "golden nugget" - A link the IRS fails to provide anywhere online - and utterly essential in order to obtain the certification of US residency, which must accompany Form 8802 when it's eventually received by HMRC (together with the Individual 2002): (mind-boggling, isn't it?)
***www.pay.gov ***
#739
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
There is full and complete information on how to pay the $85 fee for the 6166 in the instructions for form 8802. Payment options include a check and electronic payment....a route to the www.pay.gov page for 6166 fee payments is given.
I was looking, not for myself (I completed all this a couple of yrs. ago), but for a member who was confused about the forms.
My IRS web site search led to dead end - but, in any case, the link I provide may be more straightforward.
#740
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
I appreciated the link as my wife is about to fill out the forms. Had searched for the online payment information and like you couldn't find it. Had decided to send a check with the forms, but will not have to now.
#741
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
Page 2 under "Method of Payment" "Electronic payment (e-payment)".
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8802.pdf
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8802.pdf
#742
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 101
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
When I left the UK in 97 my former employer got me to fill out a form saying I was leaving the UK. I assume this was a p85 but can't remember.
Would this be enough to get my withholding right when I withdraw my UK pensions (in about 5 years spread over a few years)? I assume I can just ring up HMRC as some point and ask them what my tax code is? I don't want to give the leaches $80 without having to.
Would this be enough to get my withholding right when I withdraw my UK pensions (in about 5 years spread over a few years)? I assume I can just ring up HMRC as some point and ask them what my tax code is? I don't want to give the leaches $80 without having to.
#743
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
When I left the UK in 97 my former employer got me to fill out a form saying I was leaving the UK. I assume this was a p85 but can't remember.
Would this be enough to get my withholding right when I withdraw my UK pensions (in about 5 years spread over a few years)? I assume I can just ring up HMRC as some point and ask them what my tax code is? I don't want to give the leaches $80 without having to.
Would this be enough to get my withholding right when I withdraw my UK pensions (in about 5 years spread over a few years)? I assume I can just ring up HMRC as some point and ask them what my tax code is? I don't want to give the leaches $80 without having to.
If you have a private pension as well as a state pension HMRC will ask your pension provider to withhold tax for both the private AND the state pension, but if your tax code is already NT I imagine no tax will be withheld. If you only get a state pension then that is paid without any UK tax being withheld and it's also UK tax free when paid to a US resident so there's no need to file a US Individual 2002.
#744
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
I have to say having read what I can find on GPO I am not expecting to receive any social security. The only glimmer of light is that in the explanation given on the online social security application it does say for Federal pensions, foreign pensions are excluded. It didn't have a similar comment for State and local government pensions.
https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0202608100
B. Definitions
1. Government
Government means:
Federal - The United States Government, including military service (see RS 01901.480) and Federal Judges receiving a full salary benefit. Foreign pensions do not cause offset.
State - The 50 States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and Northern Mariana Islands.
Local - A political subdivision (see RS 01505.001B) including wholly owned instrumentalities (does not include interstate instrumentalities - RS 01505.005B).
As I read it your Metropolitan Police Pension is NOT a Federal, State or Local pension and so is NOT a trigger for GPO on a spousal pension benefit.
#745
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
Amazingly just had a call from the SSA, who completed our online applications over the phone.
My wife was as expected subject to WEP and the amount was to the cent what the online calculator predicted. She was claiming at age 65.
My spouse pension will be 50% of what her WEP'd pension would have been if she had claimed at 66. It is not subject to WEP because of my UK pensions, nor is it subject to the Government Pension Offset. I wasn't even asked about the details of my UK pensions, just if I received any other pension from the US.
A right result.
My wife was as expected subject to WEP and the amount was to the cent what the online calculator predicted. She was claiming at age 65.
My spouse pension will be 50% of what her WEP'd pension would have been if she had claimed at 66. It is not subject to WEP because of my UK pensions, nor is it subject to the Government Pension Offset. I wasn't even asked about the details of my UK pensions, just if I received any other pension from the US.
A right result.
Last edited by lansbury; Apr 20th 2015 at 11:00 pm.
#746
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2014
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 94
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
Amazingly just had a call from the SSA, who completed our online applications over the phone.
My wife was as expected subject to WEP and the amount was to the cent what the online calculator predicted. She was claiming at age 65.
My spouse pension will be 50% of what her WEP'd pension would have been if she had claimed at 66. It is not subject to WEP because of my UK pensions, nor is it subject to the Government Pension Offset. I wasn't even asked about the details of my UK pensions, just if I received any other pension from the US.
A right result.
My wife was as expected subject to WEP and the amount was to the cent what the online calculator predicted. She was claiming at age 65.
My spouse pension will be 50% of what her WEP'd pension would have been if she had claimed at 66. It is not subject to WEP because of my UK pensions, nor is it subject to the Government Pension Offset. I wasn't even asked about the details of my UK pensions, just if I received any other pension from the US.
A right result.
#747
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
She only paid NI contributions from 1996 to 2006 and they used her full UK State pension even though we paid to buy three years. The guy at SSA didn't know what a UK State pension was we had to explain it. He ignored her private pension as she was aleady at the WEP max. Either one of her two pensions max WEP out.
#748
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2014
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 94
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
She only paid NI contributions from 1996 to 2006 and they used her full UK State pension even though we paid to buy three years. The guy at SSA didn't know what a UK State pension was we had to explain it. He ignored her private pension as she was aleady at the WEP max. Either one of her two pensions max WEP out.
#749
Just Joined
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 20
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
Just received my UK form for my UK state pension. I presently receive my USA social security and was wondering if I can also collect my UK state pension as I have been paying in my voluntary NIC over the years and have the required years for full UK state pension.
I think I can but am a little worried about putting my USA social security number on the form and opening up a can of worms. I will be claiming the UK pension on my US tax return.
Any suggestions.
Bob.
I think I can but am a little worried about putting my USA social security number on the form and opening up a can of worms. I will be claiming the UK pension on my US tax return.
Any suggestions.
Bob.
Keep both separate. Claim your UK pension using a UK address, and have it paid by direct credit. Don't talk about the US, just claim you UK pension as normal.
The same in the US, don't say anything about your UK pension.
Keep both separate, if you don't you will create a minefield for yourself.
#750
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
Keep both separate. Claim your UK pension using a UK address, and have it paid by direct credit. Don't talk about the US, just claim you UK pension as normal.
The same in the US, don't say anything about your UK pension.
Keep both separate, if you don't you will create a minefield for yourself.
The same in the US, don't say anything about your UK pension.
Keep both separate, if you don't you will create a minefield for yourself.
Claim your UK pension using the form you received. Use your NI number and enter your US SS# when asked. If your UK state pension is from voluntary contributions there will be no WEP, but you might want to talk to SSA about the change in your circumstances.
You will have no UK tax liability if you are a US resident, but you should enter the UK state pension on line 16 of your 1040 and work out the US taxable basis if you made the voluntary NI payments with already taxed US income.
Last edited by nun; Apr 21st 2015 at 1:43 am.