UK state pension and USA social security
Mar 9th 2015, 9:19 pm
#631
Ping-ponger
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Dreich Alba
Posts: 12,005
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
You shot yourself in the foot. 'Say you earn'.... you just based it on earnings. Say I earn 2k for 50 years. I get nothing. Yet I contributed for longer than both your examples. So no it is not based solely on years of contributions. It is based on years of contributions that are based on earnings above a certain level. You have to earn something to get it. So it is based on earnings.
a) Yes you do. The ways you can get it without earning are exceptions to the rule and are excluded from WEP. EDIT Not sure about pre 1975.
b) Linear is the wrong word I simply meant you claim there has to be a direct relationship between size of pension and earnings. I am saying that it it can be based on earnings if you have to earn something to get it. What part of the legislation states the pension must vary by level of earnings? I believe it simply says based on non covered earnings which means ANY relationship to earnings.
c) You make contributions by earning! The exceptions are exceptions to the rule and don't fall under WEP anyway.
a) Yes you do. The ways you can get it without earning are exceptions to the rule and are excluded from WEP. EDIT Not sure about pre 1975.
b) Linear is the wrong word I simply meant you claim there has to be a direct relationship between size of pension and earnings. I am saying that it it can be based on earnings if you have to earn something to get it. What part of the legislation states the pension must vary by level of earnings? I believe it simply says based on non covered earnings which means ANY relationship to earnings.
c) You make contributions by earning! The exceptions are exceptions to the rule and don't fall under WEP anyway.
Mar 9th 2015, 9:39 pm
#633
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Eee Bah Gum
Posts: 4,129
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
Unless the only pension you get from the UK is the State pension it really doesn't matter. My wife will claim her SS next month for payment in July. He UK University pension alone takes her up to the maximum WEP. Likewise my police pension will do the same for me. Taking our UK State pensions into account makes no difference, so no point in trying Nun's argument on them.
Mar 9th 2015, 10:06 pm
#635
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: The Shire
Posts: 1,117
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
Maximum Monthly Amount Your Benefit May Be Reduced Because Of The Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP)
2015 $413.00
Retirement Planner: How the Windfall Elimination Provision Can Affect Your Social Security Benefit
It may be less depending on your Years of Substantial Earnings
2015 $413.00
Retirement Planner: How the Windfall Elimination Provision Can Affect Your Social Security Benefit
It may be less depending on your Years of Substantial Earnings
Mar 9th 2015, 10:07 pm
#636
Ping-ponger
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Dreich Alba
Posts: 12,005
Mar 9th 2015, 10:49 pm
#639
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 9,965
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
Mar 10th 2015, 3:41 pm
#641
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 40
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
FWIW I tend to agree with jb82. I think there's a certain amount of wishful thinking going on about the UK pension not being subject to WEP.
Until someone has gone through the process and shown that nun's argument is valid, I remain very skeptical.
I will say that it's a very clever argument, though!
Until someone has gone through the process and shown that nun's argument is valid, I remain very skeptical.
I will say that it's a very clever argument, though!
Mar 10th 2015, 5:31 pm
#642
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 46
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
The problem re WEP is being compounded by what looks to be a certain amount of confusion at Social Security Administration. In that they are now sitting on paperwork, for exemption status, for 1-2 years and making no decisions. I know several people in a hiatus of more than one year with no decision forthcoming...
Mar 10th 2015, 5:42 pm
#643
Just Joined
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 20
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
Are you saying that people that are entitled to Social Security are not being paid until the WEP is figured out, or are you saying that they are receiving an un-WEP'd social security while they wait?
Mar 10th 2015, 7:04 pm
#644
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 78
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
I was thinking that a uk state pension based on class 2 national insurance might have a better chance of being non wep-able.
It is based on a flat amount of contribution that can be paid whether the person has earnings or not. If you work in the uk you also pay a separate class 4 ni contribution that is based on your earnings which is similar to class 1 contributions (but that doesn't entitle you to the pension).
There is still the point of contention that you have to pay the class 2 contributions if you earn over a certain amount and so get qualifying years via earning a certain amount.
What do you guys think? Also anyone actually had any experience of a class 2 contribution pension being weped
It is based on a flat amount of contribution that can be paid whether the person has earnings or not. If you work in the uk you also pay a separate class 4 ni contribution that is based on your earnings which is similar to class 1 contributions (but that doesn't entitle you to the pension).
There is still the point of contention that you have to pay the class 2 contributions if you earn over a certain amount and so get qualifying years via earning a certain amount.
What do you guys think? Also anyone actually had any experience of a class 2 contribution pension being weped
Mar 10th 2015, 7:24 pm
#645
Ping-ponger
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Dreich Alba
Posts: 12,005
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
The problem re WEP is being compounded by what looks to be a certain amount of confusion at Social Security Administration. In that they are now sitting on paperwork, for exemption status, for 1-2 years and making no decisions. I know several people in a hiatus of more than one year with no decision forthcoming...
I think this highlights the problem. We can continue trying to point score about what the "right answer" is or whether someone "shot themselves in the foot" in this grand debating contest, but that doesn't answer the question of what some bureaucratic numpty at US SS will decide is the answer - regardless of whether they are "right" or "wrong".
So far, TheOAP is the only person I know of who has recounted their experience with how this works in practice. I think currently, most people on the BE forum are at least a handful of years from claiming US SS pension so it will be a while before we get some sense of what to expect.