jmood

Like what?

jmood

If you give up your US citizenship can you continue to get SSA retirement income? Assuming you also get UK pension, will you then be exempt from being WEP'd?

flbrit59

It's as clear as mud to me,l'm none the wiser, but l appreciate u taking the time to answer. Thanks

lansbury

As a rough guide your WEP deduction will be 30% with 24 years of SS payments.

durham_lad

Your SS is dependent on your contributions not your citizenship so giving up citizenship does not mean giving up SS. Likewise, WEP is dependent on the amount of pensions you earned from jobs where you didn't pay into SS, not on citizenship.

durham_lad

For myself, using the tables in the last link I posted I expect the max WEP deduction of approx $500/month. Good enough for budgeting purposes.

jmood

OK, thanks. But it didn't answer my question. If you give up your USC and continue to claim SS benefits, since you don't have to file US taxes anymore, does that mean your benefits are now WEP exempt?

theOAP

What does WEP have to do with US taxes? As far as I know, the two are not linked in any way.

durham_lad

SS is not exempt as I understand it even though you don't file US taxes. When you apply for SS you have to declare other pensions that were earned in jobs that did not pay SS taxes. The folks that pay SS and the IRS are two different government bodies. Not having to file US taxes means you will never be taxed on your SS income. (As a USC, and with the income I have, I expect to be taxed on 85% of my SS income).

jmood

So does that mean your SS income will be WEP'd or not?

durham_lad

When you apply for SS you have to declare other pensions that were earned in jobs that did not pay SS taxes. The folks that pay SS and the IRS are two different government bodies. Not having to file US taxes means you will never be taxed on your SS income but has nothing whatsoever to do with WEP.

Yes, you will be WEP'ed on your SS whether or not you are a US citizen.

jmood

OK, thanks.

flbrit59

ok thanks very much,that's good to know. just needed some very approx figures,so that'll do nicely

flbrit59

Great..thanks again

Lin_NJ

Hi, I have just joined the board. I will likely be taking a WEP hit, so this has been an invaluable discussion. Interestingly, there was a federal district court case very recently, Rabanal v. Colvin, Oct. 18, 2013, in the federal district court in Colorado where the judge ordered the SSA to undo the WEP on a Spanish senior (who was representing himself). The court construed the regulations to disallow application of WEP where the foreign pension included both earnings related and voluntary contributions. The Judge said, "the regulation expressly excludes from the WEP any pension from a social insurance system [here the Spanish one at issue] that is based on residence or citizenship, regardless of whether it is also based on earnings." The Regulation he is referring to is 20 C.F.R. 404.213(a)(3).

This Order has not been appealed by the SSA and it is out of time to do so. I wonder whether it is worth further challenges based on that reading for those of us with voluntary as well as earnings related contributions, such as I made in the UK.