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UK State pension for non-UK spouse abroad

UK State pension for non-UK spouse abroad

Old May 6th 2013, 8:49 am
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Default UK State pension for non-UK spouse abroad

Latest initiative from the Pensions Minister:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22423878

This may affect the financial planning for retirement in the US with a US (or other non-UK) spouse.

Note, this does not pertain to those who already have the benefit.
"But British pensioners and their families who currently live overseas and make such claims would not be affected."

Before someone points to the inevitable question, it's unclear whether this would void the (US/UK) Totalization Agreement, or if such agreements are immune to this (proposed?) action.

Last edited by theOAP; May 6th 2013 at 9:12 am.
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Old May 6th 2013, 1:35 pm
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Default Re: UK State pension for non-UK spouse abroad

How do you get your contributions back?
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Old May 6th 2013, 3:43 pm
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Default Re: UK State pension for non-UK spouse abroad

Originally Posted by theOAP View Post
Latest initiative from the Pensions Minister:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22423878

This may affect the financial planning for retirement in the US with a US (or other non-UK) spouse.

Note, this does not pertain to those who already have the benefit.
"But British pensioners and their families who currently live overseas and make such claims would not be affected."

Before someone points to the inevitable question, it's unclear whether this would void the (US/UK) Totalization Agreement, or if such agreements are immune to this (proposed?) action.
The change also affects those resident in Britain who make a claim for a pension based on their spouse's NI record. Logically speaking, I don't object to this change. I've always found it weird that people could claim not based on their own record. Otoh, US SS allows this in the sense that a spouse can get social security that is 50% of their spouse if that is larger than what they qualify for on their own record. And there is also the issue that people may have chosen to make voluntary contributions based on the understanding that their spouses would receive a benefit down the road. Just another case of where government changes can potentially screw people's plans at the drop of a hat.

Count me sceptical that this would void the US/UK agreement. Count me even more sceptical that the UK will address the "frozen pension" provision that affects those that reside in countries that don't have a totalization agreement with the UK.
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Old May 6th 2013, 6:23 pm
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Default Re: UK State pension for non-UK spouse abroad

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
Count me sceptical that this would void the US/UK agreement.
I think we're talking in the same context but just to be clear, I'm referring only to the spousal pension portion of the agreement, not the entire agreement. As you rightly point out, the SSA refers to the agreement on their web site when noting those countries where the SSA will consider paying spousal pensions for non-US persons.

In the UK, this has been the lead story on the radio and TV news as well as one of the main stories on most media sites today (with a lot of comments). As a result, the Minister has now issued another statement in defense of the action. It follows your point about the changes applying to those in the UK as well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22423878

It appears that many folk may not have fully understood all the ramifications of the new pension changes, and may have only concerned themselves with the new fixed pension amounts.
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Old May 6th 2013, 9:01 pm
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Default Re: UK State pension for non-UK spouse abroad

It's becoming hard to keep up with this story. Most sites, including the BBC, have updated their original offerings constantly. Only the Mail Online has stuck by it's original release. No surprises there. The original releases on most sites made reference directly to the US, such as this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...worked-UK.html
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Old May 6th 2013, 9:10 pm
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Default Re: UK State pension for non-UK spouse abroad

Originally Posted by theOAP View Post
It's becoming hard to keep up with this story. Most sites, including the BBC, have updated their original offerings constantly. Only the Mail Online has stuck by it's original release. No surprises there. The original releases on most sites made reference directly to the US, such as this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...worked-UK.html
It's pretty disgusting and playing into popular opinion to have couched the announcement of this in terms of "dastardly" foreign spouses, whilst keeping quiet on the fact that it will also affect some spouses resident in the UK.
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Old May 6th 2013, 10:20 pm
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Default Re: UK State pension for non-UK spouse abroad

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
It's pretty disgusting and playing into popular opinion to have couched the announcement of this in terms of "dastardly" foreign spouses, whilst keeping quiet on the fact that it will also affect some spouses resident in the UK.

It's pretty disgusting, full stop. Not sure how many women these days do not pay into their own pension. But for those families with only one wage earner paying NI and always told that payment will cover a spouse pension, for it to be charged is wrong. You take someones money as part of a contract you honor it.
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Old May 6th 2013, 10:36 pm
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Default Re: UK State pension for non-UK spouse abroad

Originally Posted by lansbury View Post
It's pretty disgusting, full stop. Not sure how many women these days do not pay into their own pension. But for those families with only one wage earner paying NI and always told that payment will cover a spouse pension, for it to be charged is wrong. You take someones money as part of a contract you honor it.
Yeh, I'm inclined to agree. I also see comments that suggest that a surviving spouse will now only be able to get a pension based on their own record. If that's true, there are going to be a _ton_ of people in the UK, the majority women, who are likely to be hit very hard by these proposed changes.
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Old May 7th 2013, 1:18 am
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Default Re: UK State pension for non-UK spouse abroad

Wont it also effect same sex couples?
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Old May 7th 2013, 2:59 pm
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Default Re: UK State pension for non-UK spouse abroad

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Wont it also effect same sex couples?
It will affect any married couple (and domestic partner?) where one person has a lot more complete NI record than the other. And that's regardless of nationality and country of residence.
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Old May 7th 2013, 6:08 pm
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Default Re: UK State pension for non-UK spouse abroad

So Steve Webb says: "We've got this rather odd situation where more and more of these pensions based on a spouse's record are people who may never have put anything at all into the system in the UK.

"It's not about their nationality, it's about whether they have put into the British system,"

And yet.. when we marry, it's perfectly moral and legal to share our partner's assets. Nowhere in a marriage does one have to have put in an equal amount in order to benefit. Nowhere in this story did I read about what happens to all the money the UK citizen DID pay into the system after it stops being paid to the partner (British or not).
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Old May 7th 2013, 6:27 pm
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Default Re: UK State pension for non-UK spouse abroad

although existing claimants will continue to receive the payments for the rest of their lives.

Thank you ..
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Old May 10th 2013, 1:49 am
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Default Re: UK State pension for non-UK spouse abroad

I agree with Ray "thank you" but this, right or wrong, is scraping the barrel.
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Old May 12th 2013, 2:44 am
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Default Re: UK State pension for non-UK spouse abroad

can somebody please help.you say that this law will start from 2016.
I am the spouse of a britsh guy.my husband receives a pension from the uk as he always paid the NI in the Uk albeit we live abroad.In the year 2014 I was going to be entitled for a pension albeit I never lived in the Uk nor paid a penny.
will this new law effect me,if ot does nota I will still get a pension in 2014 will it stopin 2016 or will it carry on--pls advise thank you
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Old May 12th 2013, 2:47 am
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Default Re: UK State pension for non-UK spouse abroad

sorry last line should read :
will this law effect me,if not and I will still get a pension will it stop or will it carry on --pls advise thank you
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