wisygreen

There is no getting away from the fact the bay area is crowded and very expensive but it depends what you are looking for as to if it is worth it. If you are used to living in an urban sprawl, or if that appeals to you for a couple of years, then San Francisco area is a wonderful area to be. It is expensive compared to other areas of America but you will have nothing to compare it to apart from Britain and I would think that London pricing is not too dissimilar. Unless you are on a mega salary you will not become rich but it sounds like you have no kids and the huge expense that entails. Personally I would seize the opportunity.

sherbert

So, the theory goes that a $150k salary for a single person is about the minimum to be able to live semi-decently in the Bay Area. How much are they offering you?

Secondly where is the office located? You'll want to live within a non suicide-inducing commuting distance so deciding on where to locate yourself is dependent on where your office is.

Thirdly, you have to go out pretty far to get 'cheaper' or rather 'more for your money'. Every surrounding city and town that you might want to live in is not going to be much cheaper than SF (but you will get slightly more space, perhaps a garden or balcony).

Fourthly, the cost of living in California and in SF in particular is EXTREMELY high. The ONLY thing that is cheaper than the UK is petrol and generic clothing (and as I always say, not in a good way). You will not believe the price of fresh food. It is much more expensive than London to eat out. I was in London a couple of months ago and simply couldn't believe how cheap food was.

That said, entire families live on a lot less than 150k (but they really struggle).

Finally, get married dude: it's the only way your GF will be able to be here with you.

VeryVeritas

I am from San Francisco and worked in the tech industry amongst other venues. Housing is horrible, but I disagree about cost of food and clothing. I guess it depends on how you shop/where you dine, and I like good food and nice clothes. I travel to the UK (and the Bay Area) a lot and food and clothing are definitely more expensive in the UK. Taxes are going to be high, especially for a single person renting with no "write offs" and you have state and local taxes in addition to federal income taxes. The tax treaty with the UK may offer set offs. However, the big thing to consider is does the company you plan to join have a solid business plan and ample funding whether big or small. Not knowing what industry you are in, middle management is usually the first to go in a downturn irrespective of industry. Having said all that, it could be a fantastic opportunity depending again, on the industry and capacity you might work in. You could make great contacts, get great experience and live in a very beautiful and interesting part of the world. I would also encourage you to try to live in the city, vs strapping into some awful commute. Despite its problems San Francisco is still a wonderful place to live and work.

Steerpike

Where in SF is the office?

I've been flitting back and forth between Bay Area and England for a while this past 12 months (sick mother in UK) and I find food (dining out) prices to be fairly similar. I eat out most of the time in the Bay Area; not 'fine dining' but good stuff - local, authentic Chinese perhaps, or various casual spots. The bills seem remarkably consistent - about $50 for two (plus tip), which includes two main dishes, a salad, and ONE glass of wine (I quit drinking years ago but my g/f still drinks). Going to a 'finer' place, the bills can get up to $100 for 2. If you drink, though, that will really push up prices. I don't know if the UK is the same, but in the US, restaurants really mark up alcohol sales (hard to get a glass of wine for under $10, and a beer will likely be $5 or more). Groceries are no more expensive than the UK in my experience. You can go to safeway.com, enter a zip code for SF (eg, 94132) and you can see prices. Maybe factor $80/day on average for food - so that's $30k. Clothes - I guess I can't comment because I live exclusively in jeans and t-shirts these days - par for the course in the Bay Area. I get most of my stuff at Costco quite frankly; great quality.

Since you won't be staying long (ha! heard that before ...), you won't be looking to buy a house so you'll be renting. Rents in SF are outrageous, especially if you want something 'nice' in a 'good' neighborhood. Others have already posted links; this one may be appropriate for you - Apartments.com focuses mainly on big apartment buildings, which is one option for you (other sites are going to be better if you want cute, funky, individual stuff). 1 bedrooms generally start at $3,500. I see a few less than that but the areas aren't the best. So reckon on at least $4k/month for a 1 br - $48k.

So food and accommodation - 78k. Transport ... SF is one of the more pedestrian friendly cities, but - I wouldn't want to be there without a car for long. There are 'casual car sharing' systems these days that I know little about other than they exist ... would love to know what you think of them - https://www.zipcar.com/san-francisco . For budgetary purposes, assume at least $5k for car payments and insurance. Maybe more ..

So before long you are looking at $100k in costs. If you make at least $150k gross, you could be ok. The good news is, if you can spell "IT" you can probably make that much so you should be fine. A mid-level exec should be able to get $200k easily.

Also, while SF is certainly growing as a 'tech center', there's still a lot more tech activity ~35 miles to the south in 'Silicon Valley' - Palo Alto, San Jose, San Mateo, etc. The living is easier down there (more spread out, more trees, etc) but - housing isn't any cheaper.

Pulaski

Did an extra zero creep in there - $8 x 31 = $248/mth or about $3k/yr?

Our usual recommendation is to allow about $250/person/mth for groceries and household consumables, which is consistent with the federal government table that shows around $250-$300/person/mth - I can't remember where the link is to that data.

Els87

Thanks for all the information so far, really useful. The salary is between the $150-200k bracket however that will be me and my partner living off the one wage.

Its in the tech sector unsurprisingly, with a head office in Bay Area and commuting to Menlo Park for work, what sort of area would be good taking that into consideration?

sherbert

SF to Menlo Park is 1.5 hours on the train. If your office is in Menlo Park any of the surrounding cities (Redwood City, Palo Alto, Mountain View) would work. You can live OK on that kind of salary for 2 people but you won't have much left over at the end of the month. Remember, though that your GF coming to live with you on a tourist visa is only going to get her 90 days worth of time and then she's going to need to be out of the country for at least that long before she tries to enter again.

Pulaski

But if they don't get married the GF would presumably qualify as a "cohabitating domestic partner", which although is the same B-1/B-2 visa type as a visitor visa, the CDP visa qualifies for extended time living in the US and without the "time outside the US" requirement.

That said, as already said above, if you care enough about someone to drag them a quarter of the way around the world, why wouldn't you marry them to make their life considerably more easy, and allow them to work if they so wish?

Steerpike

No, I meant $80/day * 365 = $29,200. I'm assuming this guy is busy and will eat out a lot - no time for grocery shopping and cooking. I lived that life for decades and I ate out most of the time. Working late, socializing, wining and dining, etc (not to mention traveling) is part of the game. A very functional cheap dinner out is $50 for 2 but it's very easy to pay $100 if you want to try out the latest new restaurant, and dining out is an SF 'thing' (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jed-k...tm_hp_ref=food - SF is the #1 town for restaurants per capita). I'm semi-retired now, and thus don't have the time pressure I used to have, but old habits die hard and my fridge is almost devoid of cooking ingredients; it more closely resembles a student fridge with beverages and snacks! I just pulled up 'quicken' which keeps track of my spending for me, and I see that I spent $14k on food (restaurants plus groceries) last 12 months ... and that's just my 'half' of the deal (my partner and I run separate budgets because I write off a lot of my food expenses). I'm not talking here about what a practical 'family of four' *husband/wife/2 kids) could live off, I'm talking about a really busy single guy living alone in a city surrounded by great places to eat ... or having his g/f come to visit and wanting to show her the good life. If I only had a couple of years to live in a new place, I'd be out and about most nights if I could afford it. Interestingly, I just looked at my 'budget' for retirement; I am allocating $13,000 to food so I need to get my spending under control !

Steerpike

$200k should be ok; $150k will be pushing it a bit especially if your G/F is there much of the time. Will she be paying her own airfare to hop back and forth? There's lots of cheap flight options between UK and SF, if you book ahead - under $1,000 generally.

OK, I'm going to throw in my 2c on location. I LOVE Menlo Park! I also love Palo Alto, the adjacent city. It's physically beautiful, with mountains / foothills, weather to die for, and so on. Has a fantastic restaurant / dining scene. It's way too expensive for me (as is SF) but I'd live there in a heartbeat if I could afford it. When I first came to US in 1983, my first job was in Palo Alto in the most gorgeous office location you could imagine - in the foothills, just off Page Mill Rd, near the Stanford campus. We used to go out sometimes in Menlo Park. But I was a headstrong, determined guy and I was determined to live in SF ... thinking Palo Alto was boring. So I lived in SF, and commuted up/down I-280 every day (and to be sure, if you HAVE to commute, I-280 is the best possible freeway to do it on as it winds through the foothills and is stunning). I loved SF for a while, and didn't mind the commute (I was able to set my own hours, so came in late, left late). But after 12 years in the city, I grew to hate living there - too crowded, too many homeless, no parking anywhere, etc. I really wished I'd stayed in Palo Alto. HOWEVER - that's part of getting older ... and I did love SF for many years! But don't rule out Menlo Park if you appreciate trees, weather, etc (SF can be foggy and miserable while Menlo Park will be basking in sunny, 70-degree weather). Because it's such a hotbed of tech, PA and MP are not going to be any cheaper but you will get a decent spot if you pay the $.

ETA: It used to take me 1 hr to drive from the 'Richmond district' in SF (decent, but not the best neighborhood) to Page Mill Rd in Palo Alto ... 'off peak' (10am down, 7pm+ up). Location is everything ... Offices close to the foothills/280 are going to be the most expensive of all, but fast access to 280 is worth a lot. Los Altos is also a wonderful town to live in. Driving down I-280, traffic flows freely until you hit Palo Alto, then it grinds to a halt ... so MP and PA are just about feasible for commuting from SF. Of course, my experience is from 1980s ... but I think the I-280 situation is not that different today. They call it the 'rich bankers freeway' as it serves all the rich communities on the peninsula (PA, MP, Los Altos, Los Altos Hills, Woodside, Atherton, Hillsborough, etc). Even today, I'm shocked at how beautiful that freeway drive is - the part from PA up to SFO).

Hotscot

Page Mill Rd...that's where Adobe's first web creation app came from.
Page Mill.

Steerpike

And the new rather extravagant campus for VMWare is there now (just off Page Mill Rd on Foothill Expressway). Talk about fancy campuses! And Xerox Parc is right there ... the original Palo Alto Research Center where Steve Jobs nabbed the idea for a mouse etc

lhpxzcnus

Welcome.
We moved to Bay area from Manchester 2 years ago. House/rent is very expensive, especially in SF. Food/dining cost is similar to UK, cheaper vegetables (the only thing my wife likes in US). Car and petrol are cheap. To support a family with reasonable living standard you need 200K at least.
Total income in bay area should be much more than UK as well. And it grows faster than UK. I started around 150k, almost doubled after 2 years.

Steerpike

That's another thing to bear in mind; salaries are a complete free-for-all. When I was in the UK, every position seemed to have a well-defined description and pay rate. In the US, you can negotiate anything, and if you work hard you can really get your salary up there. In my first 10 years I went from $28k in 1983 to $86k in 1993 - over 10% per year. It eased off after that but you get the idea (I was making 9k GBP when I left!). People love to complain about the work situation in the US - no job security, etc - but the flip side is, if you get into a good job and work hard, you can do very well for yourself. The flexibility to fire on a whim also makes companies more likely to hire on a whim. But the one thing to note about the Bay Area tech scene is - you are expected to work hard, and that may translate to long hours They'll throw money at you but they need you to produce, and you aren't likely to enjoy 'work / life balance'. I didn't care one bit - I absolutely loved my job and just kept lapping up any and all new assignments but my personal life suffered.

Cape Blue

Your partner could sign up to a cheap study course and get a student visa.

Alternatively offload them and get some fresh.