Ranjini

I just lifted this off the website of very well-known immigration Attorney on the topic of "Marriage Outside the US to a US Citizen".

"Sometimes, in order to avoid a lengthy separation, the spouses return to the U.S. after the marriage and proceed to file the necessary applications once they are both in the U.S. Usually, INS takes a dim view of this practice. It is not uncommon for the INS to stop the foreign-born spouse at the border and exclude him or her from the U.S. as an intending immigrant. However, if the foreign-born spouse is able to enter the U.S., INS will not deny his or her application for a green card simply because he or she entered the U.S. on a temporary visa when their real intent was to remain permanently in the U.S"

Now what have you pundits out there got to say about this????

Folinskyinla

Hi:

This immigration attorney agrees 100% with the quoted language. It succinctly sets forth the law and the facts.

Note that the statement makes no recommendations.

MY recommendation when I advise clients is based on the same premise of the quoted language -- I don't make moral judements but note that a risk IS being taken.

I also tell the client more than once that I am NOT, repeat NOT recommendting the course of action. In large part, that is for my own protection since I am not allowed to recommend violation of the law.

Ranjini

Thank you Mr. F... exactly what I was hoping to hear. What a lot of people on this newsroup are looking for are "the law and the facts". And a statement giving the risks involved.
That's what this newsgroup has always been about. Not some posters making moral judgements on supposed intentions...

Patrick

Have you actually read anyones reply or do you just guess? No-one has ever said that it can't be done they just recommend against it - especially if people are entering the country with the express intent to marry and AOS.

There is very little high ground taken. I think most people here are responsible and tell people the risks involved in entering the country with the express intent of marrying and AOSing - what pisses people off is someone giving point blank advice that it is OK to enter and marry with the intent to stay on a VW or B1/2 visa. That is irresponsible to tell people to do it, they might not understand the consequences of there actions if things go wrong.

For me (and most people) it not important how people enter the country (with or without the correct visa) just that they get good advice. This rose tinted garden of "just get in the country and everything else will be OK" is not OK, its half a story and worse its the half of the story that can ruin peoples lifes. Not everyone wants to go about the correct procedures and that is risk they take - if they are happy to take that risk then who are we to disagree, they are grown ups after all. But if they ask for advice they must be given correct advice, they must be told the consequences of their actions.

The problem with people is that they will only read the advice they want to read so 15 replies saying "it may be construde as visa fraud if you enter with the sole purpose of staying" will be ignored for the one saying "if you can get past the gestapo bastards at the airport by lying then your golden"

With freedom comes the responsibilities of freedom, with giving advice is the responibility of giving advice and I can't see anyone here on the moral high ground just telling it as it is and how it should be told.

Patrick

robclews

Whats wrong with morality, its an essential part of life and many decisions in our lifetime are influenced by just that. Perhaps a cold calculated view of everything is the way to be.

Ranjini

Absolutely not, Rob. It's your choice and mine also!! I like to think that I am a moral person. And my choice has been basically the same as yours far as immigration. I choose to tread the straight and narrow, because it's what's right for me. It's all about choice. Everyone has the right to know the facts and make their own choices... That, to me, is what freedom is all about.

JeffB

Just out of curiousity, where does calling someone names figure into you and your buddies list of moralities?

Ranjini

We're not going there Patrick. We have been over this before. Have you given any thought to the boilerplate answer that Rete talked about in the other thread?? I believe I made a specific appeal to you and Rob

Patrick

Number 3

robclews

Well i dont think there is one, sadly, I wish there was.

JeffB

Hey Ranjini you know you will get responses like that when these are common quotes from them:

Robclews earlier:
“I think your talking out of your ass, but hey we are all entitled to our opinions, I just think yours is total crap !!!�
“Its difficult to have a conversation with someone who's head it stuck so far up his ass he can see his tonsils,�
Robclews later:
“I do not put people down just voice my opinion�

Robclews earlier:
�Yes this is a great country, I have chosen to make it my home, sadly it could stop becoming so great if people like you make a mockery of the rules set in place to protect its greatness.�
Robclews later:
“I really don't see where you clutch these comments from, arrogance, condescending, I don't see where I have ever displayed those. I have never suggested you are bad for your country.�

Patrick:
"This has been done to death on this NG, there is always one asshole and congratulations Jeff, today it is you."
"You are irresponsible, not only that your a complete asshole - Rob disagrees with you and try to character assasinate him, grow up."
"Rob your right, Jeff your completly wrong"
"everytime you reply on this thread you make a bigger ass of yourself so your doing the job yourself - which your probably an expert at (doing things yourself)."

I would be surprised to hear anything different from these guys. I get over emotional during stressful times I admit it, I may say things out of emotion, I'll apologize if I attack someones charactor. But I don't and didn't initiate the childish name calling, but if you look back through many posts, both these guys have been doing it a long time.

Ranjini

Jeff, I was so fed up with the responses, I attempted to delete the thread. But for some reason, I don't seem to be able to do that. But at least Folinskyinla's sensible response will stand. For that alone, it may be worthwhile retaining it. I am bowing out of this thread. Please continue to post and ask your questions... Remember you are not alone

angeles73

No sense in beating a dead horse. You obviously all disagree and I don't even see the point of bringing back this discussion which did nothing but divide the forum at one point. I stayed out of it, basically because although I agree whole heartedly with Patrick, I believe that if someone is going to go the LOW road and enter this country knowing they are not just tourists but using the advantage they have been given to not wait what others must, they have that right. I also believe the US govt has the right to interview them at the POE, deport them and ban them.

I also believe no country should be on a visa waiver program or have any advantage over any other country when it comes to immigration. Everyone should have to wait it out. There should be no preferential treatment. If only because you just can't tell what someone's real intentions are lately and a passport being issued from a particular country should not be an advantage, but a form of identity and accountability. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Ange

JeffB

Ange, on one side we have those of us who feel we are voicing our opinions and our feelings on the subject, then we have on the other side those who don't want our opinion to be heard because they don't agree. We all have opinions and they all have a right to be heard, especially in a forum like this one. No one has the right to tell us not to have an opinion, and we are all intelligent enough, questionposers included, to know that we are expressing feeliings and opinions here in this forum. To think one would pose these questions and take our posts for law is rather condesecsening just in itself. We all accept the terms of this forum as informational when we join if I am not misstaken. I do not fault people for their opinions, I fault people for trying to keep me from having mine and trying to put down anyone who doesn't agree with them. If you noticed I didn't fault anyone for their opinions on the subject, just the WAY they expressed their opinions towords mine, namecalling, belittling, you don't belong posting, etc etc. Yes, I am offended by those among us who choose LOW tactics to discuss these issues that are so important to all of us here. I myself will try not to go down that road again, but when I am challenged, I will respond and none of us are here to be abused.
I want to thank all of the members of this board for the help that it has given me, I want that to be very clear that I appreciate it and I hope I can give some of it back to the forum as well.

Ranjini

I think we have nailed it, Jeff. All it boils down to is - OPINION. I don't believe opinion is what you were looking for here. You just wanted FACTS.... Who gives a s***t for anyone's opinion????
I think we are all capable of forming our own.... Give me a break!! NOW I will shut up....