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are taxes higher in the uk or usa?

are taxes higher in the uk or usa?

Old Oct 1st 2007, 10:49 pm
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Default are taxes higher in the uk or usa?

Hi
I am tired having this argument with a new yorker co worker who afferctionately calls me "commie" because i want universal healthcare.

I know that sales taxes here in nyc are about 8.5% versus 17.5% VAT (I remember when it was only 15% and cant work out how the government managed to raise it without a real outcry).

My parents have a comparable house to me in london - i pay about 10K a year in real estate taxes, they pay about 3-4K. They pay poll tax. I pay medical . I think i pay about 35% payroll taxes - i am not sure what they pay in the uk , but i am guerssing that it is a littme more, although not much.

I pay $3 a gallon for petrol, they pay about 5.50. I pay about 2K a year electricity and gas, they probably pay about 500 (which may infact nearly balance it out)

we give a shit about poor people - they dont, and infact the poor people dont even give a shit about poor people often voting for their dreams rather than reality (eg the death/inheritance tax)

so who is better of, assuming 2 people on either side of the pond have the same size house, family, collection of stuff etc? I know if you are poor it must be to live in the uk, and if you are rich it would be here, but what about most people, who fall in the middle?



All in all who is better of (in terms of taxes etc?)
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Old Oct 1st 2007, 11:36 pm
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Default Re: are taxes higher in the uk or usa?

Originally Posted by aharbour View Post
Hi
I am tired having this argument with a new yorker co worker who afferctionately calls me "commie" because i want universal healthcare.

I know that sales taxes here in nyc are about 8.5% versus 17.5% VAT (I remember when it was only 15% and cant work out how the government managed to raise it without a real outcry).

My parents have a comparable house to me in london - i pay about 10K a year in real estate taxes, they pay about 3-4K. They pay poll tax. I pay medical . I think i pay about 35% payroll taxes - i am not sure what they pay in the uk , but i am guerssing that it is a littme more, although not much.

I pay $3 a gallon for petrol, they pay about 5.50. I pay about 2K a year electricity and gas, they probably pay about 500 (which may infact nearly balance it out)

we give a shit about poor people - they dont, and infact the poor people dont even give a shit about poor people often voting for their dreams rather than reality (eg the death/inheritance tax)

so who is better of, assuming 2 people on either side of the pond have the same size house, family, collection of stuff etc? I know if you are poor it must be to live in the uk, and if you are rich it would be here, but what about most people, who fall in the middle?



All in all who is better of (in terms of taxes etc?)
I have always wondered this too. Many people flippantly say how low american taxes are but I think they don't realise just how many hidden taxes/charges etc. they pay every day. In a way even tips are a sort of tax or at rather a below the line cost.
You only have to look at the cell phone or landline bill to see how many taxes there are. Of course it may also be that they like to explicitly state what each tax is for even if end the it all goes into a giant slush fund to pay for bridges to nowhere etc.
My take is that tax is much simpler in the UK. There are fewer of them, and they are relatively clearly stated. (that phone bill for example). Here whilst you have the choice of not having a phone or rather not having healthcare etc. and thus not paying tax in reality you have to have both of them. I wonder how many people take into account their health care costs and treat it as a tax. even the BBC license fee compares favourably with cable bills I think. I would rather pay $250 or so for even 2 channels with good programming than $1000 for 600 channels of crap that I dont want to see.
I would love to see a comparative analysis of the two countries, probably broken down into different income groups too.
The income tax situation here seems to be mainly for the benefit of the very very poor, the very very rich and accountants. The richer you are the more accountants you can pay and the more loopholes you can find.
I suspect that in the end the two are probably not disimilar with the excepetion that in the UK you dont have to worry about losing your house or car if you get admitted to hospital..
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Old Oct 2nd 2007, 12:46 am
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Default Re: are taxes higher in the uk or usa?

A lot of it would depend on where in the UK you lived and where in the US you lived.

But I think the real cost is in terms of life style that affects you and your family in your situation.
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Old Oct 2nd 2007, 1:13 am
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Default Re: are taxes higher in the uk or usa?

Originally Posted by aharbour View Post
All in all who is better of (in terms of taxes etc?)
make of this what you will:

Total Tax Wedge:

Single Worker USA 30.0%
Single Worker UK 29.7%

Single Income Family USA 19.4%
Single Income Family UK 17.8%

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ta...-single-worker

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ta...-income-family

Overall source: The OECD
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Old Oct 2nd 2007, 1:14 am
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Default Re: are taxes higher in the uk or usa?

Originally Posted by angelman View Post
even the BBC license fee compares favourably with cable bills I think. I would rather pay $250 or so for even 2 channels with good programming than $1000 for 600 channels of crap that I dont want to see...
I wholeheartedly agree
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Old Oct 2nd 2007, 2:59 am
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Default Re: are taxes higher in the uk or usa?

in TN my tax burden is about equal to where I lived in the UK (herts)

in TN there is low property taxes and no state income tax

in any state or city with state or city income tax then my tax burden is likely to be higher....

this is excluding vat etc.... buying a used car in the UK is free of sales tax, not so over here... so somethings balance out
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Old Oct 2nd 2007, 3:01 am
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Default Re: are taxes higher in the uk or usa?

Originally Posted by elfman View Post
make of this what you will:

Total Tax Wedge:

Single Worker USA 30.0%
Single Worker UK 29.7%

Single Income Family USA 19.4%
Single Income Family UK 17.8%

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ta...-single-worker

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ta...-income-family

Overall source: The OECD
Do these figures take healthcare costs into consideration?
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Old Oct 2nd 2007, 4:35 am
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Default Re: are taxes higher in the uk or usa?

The definition at the bottom (for the single person one) says:

DEFINITION: The percentage of gross earnings given up in tax, including any social security contributions. Calculated for a single worker without children, earning 100 % of the average wage. Data for 2001, and only for selected OECD countries

So I reckon that means in the UK it is included (ie covers NHS funding) but not in the US as medical insurance isn't given up in tax or social security.

From the definition, I guess it also excludes any VAT/GST.
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Old Oct 2nd 2007, 7:05 am
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Default Re: are taxes higher in the uk or usa?

So many variables.

People in UK moan about NI contributions but are getting unlimited healthcare free at point of delivery plus a state pension with a guaranteed minimum income. Social security contribution here is almost as high but you get nothing unless very poor. Money also doesn't seem to get through to homeless and many other people in need.

As pointed out by angelman, everyone expects a tip of 15-20%.

Cable and mobile phone charges are not cheap.

But mortgage interest payments are tax-deductible.

Allowances for spouse/children between the 2 countries I find hard to compare.
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Old Oct 2nd 2007, 7:48 am
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Default Re: are taxes higher in the uk or usa?

For me, taxes are much lower over here for me, I was being taxed to the hilt in the UK. I wish over here the tax system was more simplified.


Originally Posted by aharbour View Post
Hi
I am tired having this argument with a new yorker co worker who afferctionately calls me "commie" because i want universal healthcare.

I know that sales taxes here in nyc are about 8.5% versus 17.5% VAT (I remember when it was only 15% and cant work out how the government managed to raise it without a real outcry).

My parents have a comparable house to me in london - i pay about 10K a year in real estate taxes, they pay about 3-4K. They pay poll tax. I pay medical . I think i pay about 35% payroll taxes - i am not sure what they pay in the uk , but i am guerssing that it is a littme more, although not much.

I pay $3 a gallon for petrol, they pay about 5.50. I pay about 2K a year electricity and gas, they probably pay about 500 (which may infact nearly balance it out)

we give a shit about poor people - they dont, and infact the poor people dont even give a shit about poor people often voting for their dreams rather than reality (eg the death/inheritance tax)

so who is better of, assuming 2 people on either side of the pond have the same size house, family, collection of stuff etc? I know if you are poor it must be to live in the uk, and if you are rich it would be here, but what about most people, who fall in the middle?



All in all who is better of (in terms of taxes etc?)
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Old Oct 2nd 2007, 10:17 pm
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Default Re: are taxes higher in the uk or usa?

Originally Posted by aharbour View Post
Hi
I am tired having this argument with a new yorker co worker who afferctionately calls me "commie" because i want universal healthcare.

I know that sales taxes here in nyc are about 8.5% versus 17.5% VAT (I remember when it was only 15% and cant work out how the government managed to raise it without a real outcry).

My parents have a comparable house to me in london - i pay about 10K a year in real estate taxes, they pay about 3-4K. They pay poll tax. I pay medical . I think i pay about 35% payroll taxes - i am not sure what they pay in the uk , but i am guerssing that it is a littme more, although not much.

I pay $3 a gallon for petrol, they pay about 5.50. I pay about 2K a year electricity and gas, they probably pay about 500 (which may infact nearly balance it out)

we give a shit about poor people - they dont, and infact the poor people dont even give a shit about poor people often voting for their dreams rather than reality (eg the death/inheritance tax)

so who is better of, assuming 2 people on either side of the pond have the same size house, family, collection of stuff etc? I know if you are poor it must be to live in the uk, and if you are rich it would be here, but what about most people, who fall in the middle?



All in all who is better of (in terms of taxes etc?)
Worked the taxes out here, if you include healthcare costs...UK is cheaper by 20%

and minimum wage in UK is now 5.52 pounds per hour compared with pathetic $ 5.85 ( 2.875 pounds per hour)

Last edited by lanky spoken here; Oct 2nd 2007 at 10:21 pm.
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Old Oct 3rd 2007, 3:07 am
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Default Re: are taxes higher in the uk or usa?

Originally Posted by lanky spoken here View Post

and minimum wage in UK is now 5.52 pounds per hour compared with pathetic $ 5.85 ( 2.875 pounds per hour)
In either country its still pathetic......5.52 or 5.85 isn't going to buy you diddly squat in either country.
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Old Oct 3rd 2007, 3:16 am
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Default Re: are taxes higher in the uk or usa?

Originally Posted by Sally View Post

As pointed out by angelman, everyone expects a tip of 15-20%.

In the UK, it's likely included in the price of your food. Here it is not. Not really tax related.

Social security contribution here is almost as high but you get nothing unless very poor.


Not true - when you retire you definitely get social security. It's also there in case you are disabled, etc. and unable to work.

*
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Old Oct 3rd 2007, 3:32 am
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Default Re: are taxes higher in the uk or usa?

Originally Posted by AmerLisa View Post
In either country its still pathetic......5.52 or 5.85 isn't going to buy you diddly squat in either country.
I suppose you get twice as much diddly squat in UK.
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Old Oct 3rd 2007, 3:33 am
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Default Re: are taxes higher in the uk or usa?

Originally Posted by KJ2007 View Post
*
Oh OK, I don't really understand the social security. How much do you get when you retire?
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