Go Back  British Expats > Living & Moving Abroad > USA
Reload this Page >

Tax Refund Question

Tax Refund Question

Old Jan 9th 2015, 6:22 am
  #16  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Michael's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 10,678
Michael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond reputeMichael has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tax Refund Question

Originally Posted by JAJ
Here's how it works, in general.

As a non-resident alien, you pay tax at the normal U.S. rates on your U.S. source income. In particular, your employment income, any U.S. rentals, etc. If you have U.S. dividends, interest, or certain other types of income, special tax rates apply, usually dependent on tax treaty.

You cannot take the normal standard deduction (other than in exceptional cases), or most itemized deductions. However you can claim a personal exemption as normal, and you can take certain itemized deductions such as state income tax.

If you want to figure out your tax in advance, you need to carefully work through the form 1040NR form + instructions, plus publication 519, plus any other relevant information on the IRS website. Start here:
Taxation of Nonresident Aliens

Effectively, (as far as I understand) there is still usually a tax benefit in only have part-year income. Since although you don't get quite as many deductions as those available to U.S. residents, you do get the benefit of the lower tax bands even though you do not have a full year's income.

In your previous threads, you suggested you would be on L visa/status. If you are an intra-company transfer employee, have you got a certificate of exemption that allows you to continue paying National Insurance rather than U.S. Social Security tax? Also, is your employer paying for you to have professional tax assistance (first year tax returns are more complex than usual) and if not, why not?
I agree with most of what you indicate but the big kicker is that there isn't a tax table for 1040 NR for married filing jointly so taxes owed are based on single or married filing separately which hit the higher marginal tax brackets much earlier.
Michael is offline  
Old Jan 9th 2015, 10:45 am
  #17  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 180
unique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tax Refund Question

Originally Posted by JAJ



In your previous threads, you suggested you would be on L visa/status. If you are an intra-company transfer employee, have you got a certificate of exemption that allows you to continue paying National Insurance rather than U.S. Social Security tax? Also, is your employer paying for you to have professional tax assistance (first year tax returns are more complex than usual) and if not, why not?
I do not have that exemption. From what I read I did not know you had the option to continue to pay NI rather than social security. I thought the tax treaty was in place do you don't have to pay both.

They have not provided that service and that is because I did not ask for it, which was a mistake on my part. However indirectly they are as they gave me a relocation package which they have said should be used for taxes though I am trying to get around this.

Also I think it is down to an extremely poor HR department this was not giving as a standard
unique_boy is offline  
Old Jan 9th 2015, 2:00 pm
  #18  
Ping-ponger
 
dunroving's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Dreich Alba
Posts: 12,005
dunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tax Refund Question

Originally Posted by Cook_County
US tax return filing is mandatory - the system is simply different from the UK system. You agreed (perhaps not knowingly) to dealing with annual income tax and informational return filing when you chose to move to the United States.
Helpful.
dunroving is offline  
Old Jan 9th 2015, 3:27 pm
  #19  
 
Pulaski's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,439
Pulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tax Refund Question

Originally Posted by unique_boy
I do not have that exemption. From what I read I did not know you had the option to continue to pay NI rather than social security. I thought the tax treaty was in place do you don't have to pay both. ....
You might not "have to" pay both, but depending on how long you work in each country (US & UK) it is quite possible to "double dip" and get a "full" pension from both governments. ..... This would require paying voluntary NI in the UK, and if you can get approved for "Class 2" contributions, they are a bargain.
Pulaski is offline  
Old Jan 9th 2015, 4:59 pm
  #20  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 180
unique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tax Refund Question

Originally Posted by Pulaski
You might not "have to" pay both, but depending on how long you work in each country (US & UK) it is quite possible to "double dip" and get a "full" pension from both governments. ..... This would require paying voluntary NI in the UK, and if you can get approved for "Class 2" contributions, they are a bargain.
I have read into it but decided right now it is not worth paying voluntary NI in the UK as I still have about 38 years to UK retirement age and around 10 years of contributions already.

I decided to wait until where I settle long term is more settled.
unique_boy is offline  
Old Jan 9th 2015, 5:57 pm
  #21  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,865
Giantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tax Refund Question

Originally Posted by unique_boy
They have not provided that service and that is because I did not ask for it, which was a mistake on my part. However indirectly they are as they gave me a relocation package which they have said should be used for taxes though I am trying to get around this.
Just remember that some of that "relocation package" could itself be taxable income...
Giantaxe is offline  
Old Jan 9th 2015, 6:11 pm
  #22  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 4,759
GeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tax Refund Question

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
Just remember that some of that "relocation package" could itself be taxable income...
For a moment I thought you meant a deduction: not so if the employer paid for it? But moving expenses, if paid for by yourself, is. However then I read your response again I'm not so sure - but I'll leave my comments anyway!
GeoffM is offline  
Old Jan 9th 2015, 7:17 pm
  #23  
BE Forum Addict
 
Owen778's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2014
Location: Anchorage, AK, USA
Posts: 1,347
Owen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tax Refund Question

Originally Posted by unique_boy
I have read into it but decided right now it is not worth paying voluntary NI in the UK as I still have about 38 years to UK retirement age and around 10 years of contributions already.

I decided to wait until where I settle long term is more settled.
There are good reasons to choose not to contribute to NI, but I don't think that's one of them. Your UK pension will pay out wherever you live.
Owen778 is offline  
Old Jan 9th 2015, 7:25 pm
  #24  
 
Pulaski's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,439
Pulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond reputePulaski has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tax Refund Question

Originally Posted by Owen778
There are good reasons to choose not to contribute to NI, but I don't think that's one of them. Your UK pension will pay out wherever you live.
38 years out sounds a lot, but he would need to accumulate 25 more years contributions under the "new" rules. Who knows what the pay-out criteria will be 38 years from now, but £142/yr is hard to beat as an investment.

He might want to reinvestigate 7 years from now when (under current rules) he could back-pay to 2014. At very least he should reinvestigate 19 years from now when (under current rules) he can back-pay enough years to still get himself to 35 years of contributions by retirement age.
Pulaski is offline  
Old Jan 9th 2015, 7:44 pm
  #25  
BE Forum Addict
 
Owen778's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2014
Location: Anchorage, AK, USA
Posts: 1,347
Owen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tax Refund Question

Originally Posted by Pulaski
38 years out sounds a lot, but he would need to accumulate 25 more years contributions under the "new" rules. Who knows what the pay-out criteria will be 38 years from now, but £142/yr is hard to beat as an investment.

He might want to reinvestigate 7 years from now when (under current rules) he could back-pay to 2014. At very least he should reinvestigate 19 years from now when (under current rules) he can back-pay enough years to still get himself to 35 years of contributions by retirement age.
Yes, that's sensible, certainly the first statement. That's one of the good reasons: wait and see for the first few years and then back-pay.
Owen778 is offline  
Old Jan 9th 2015, 7:52 pm
  #26  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 180
unique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tax Refund Question

Originally Posted by Owen778
There are good reasons to choose not to contribute to NI, but I don't think that's one of them. Your UK pension will pay out wherever you live.
What is a good reason?

I did not move to the US thinking that I will live here forever. I moved because my employer offered me an opportunity that was very good for my career. If in 3 years I decide I want to make my life here I will reconsider my voluntary NII contributions.

In 3 years if I move back to the uk I would only be 30 and with current pension age at 68 and needing 30 years of contributions of which I have 7-10 roughly already.

Paying voluntary contributions would be lost money as I would still be working another 30 years in the UK
unique_boy is offline  
Old Jan 9th 2015, 7:54 pm
  #27  
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 180
unique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond reputeunique_boy has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tax Refund Question

Originally Posted by Pulaski
38 years out sounds a lot, but he would need to accumulate 25 more years contributions under the "new" rules. Who knows what the pay-out criteria will be 38 years from now, but £142/yr is hard to beat as an investment.

He might want to reinvestigate 7 years from now when (under current rules) he could back-pay to 2014. At very least he should reinvestigate 19 years from now when (under current rules) he can back-pay enough years to still get himself to 35 years of contributions by retirement age.
I misquoted, I actually have 41 years until I qualify for UK state pension!
unique_boy is offline  
Old Jan 9th 2015, 10:35 pm
  #28  
BE Forum Addict
 
Owen778's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2014
Location: Anchorage, AK, USA
Posts: 1,347
Owen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond reputeOwen778 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tax Refund Question

Originally Posted by unique_boy
What is a good reason?

I did not move to the US thinking that I will live here forever. I moved because my employer offered me an opportunity that was very good for my career. If in 3 years I decide I want to make my life here I will reconsider my voluntary NII contributions.

In 3 years if I move back to the uk I would only be 30 and with current pension age at 68 and needing 30 years of contributions of which I have 7-10 roughly already.

Paying voluntary contributions would be lost money as I would still be working another 30 years in the UK
Yes, that does make more sense, providing you don't want to take early retirement.

Bear in mind, though, that the current plans are for the 30 years maximum contributions to increase to 35, though with 41 you should still have plenty.
Owen778 is offline  
Old Jan 9th 2015, 10:41 pm
  #29  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,865
Giantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tax Refund Question

Originally Posted by GeoffM
For a moment I thought you meant a deduction: not so if the employer paid for it? But moving expenses, if paid for by yourself, is. However then I read your response again I'm not so sure - but I'll leave my comments anyway!
Read the full comment from the OP I was replying to... the implication seeming to be that they were getting a relocation pot of money from their employer that could be used to pay for, amongst other relocation-related costs, the cost of a first-year tax return. If that's the case, that "pot" would likely be considered taxable income and only offset by incurred relocation costs that are specifically deductible - which doesn't include things like tax preparation.
Giantaxe is offline  
Old Jan 9th 2015, 11:01 pm
  #30  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 4,759
GeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond reputeGeoffM has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Tax Refund Question

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
Read the full comment from the OP I was replying to... the implication seeming to be that they were getting a relocation pot of money from their employer that could be used to pay for, amongst other relocation-related costs, the cost of a first-year tax return. If that's the case, that "pot" would likely be considered taxable income and only offset by incurred relocation costs that are specifically deductible - which doesn't include things like tax preparation.
I did, hence my comment.
GeoffM is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.