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SS for 'dependents'

SS for 'dependents'

Old Apr 30th 2005, 10:19 pm
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Default SS for 'dependents'

Just got my husband's yearly SS statement, according to which:

"Your family may receive the following benefits if you (ie DH) die this year..."

Well, nice to know that I and our offspring would get something.

But this got me thinking: for the past 4 years I have been on an H4 visa, whilst DH has been working (on an H1B) and paying taxes etc.

Am I accumulating any SS/pension benefits at all?
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Old Apr 30th 2005, 11:16 pm
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Default Re: SS for 'dependents'

Originally Posted by DonnaElvira
Just got my husband's yearly SS statement, according to which:

"Your family may receive the following benefits if you (ie DH) die this year..."

Well, nice to know that I and our offspring would get something.

But this got me thinking: for the past 4 years I have been on an H4 visa, whilst DH has been working (on an H1B) and paying taxes etc.

Am I accumulating any SS/pension benefits at all?
Not on your own. Only as a derivative dependent as you don't work. Also you should check as your husband might not be eligible for retirement benefits from SS even though he contributed since he is not a PR. Many HB workers chose not to contribute for just that reason. Call the SSA and find out first hand. They are easy to reach by phone and on their website.
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Old May 1st 2005, 12:49 am
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Default Re: SS for 'dependents'

Originally Posted by Rete
Not on your own. Only as a derivative dependent as you don't work. Also you should check as your husband might not be eligible for retirement benefits from SS even though he contributed since he is not a PR. Many HB workers chose not to contribute for just that reason. Call the SSA and find out first hand. They are easy to reach by phone and on their website.
Thanks, Rete. His statement says: "To get retirement benefits, you need 40 credits of work. Your record shows you have at least 16 credits at this time, including assumed credits for last year and this year if you continue to work".

Presumably this shows that he is (or will be) eligible, or am I reading this wrong?

As far as I am concerned: I realise that I do not accummulate credit of my own, but do I get 'homemaker credit' (or whatever they call it here...)? (I do not have a SS# of course.)

TIA
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Old May 1st 2005, 1:06 am
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Default Re: SS for 'dependents'

Originally Posted by DonnaElvira
Thanks, Rete. His statement says: "To get retirement benefits, you need 40 credits of work. Your record shows you have at least 16 credits at this time, including assumed credits for last year and this year if you continue to work".

Presumably this shows that he is (or will be) eligible, or am I reading this wrong?

As far as I am concerned: I realise that I do not accummulate credit of my own, but do I get 'homemaker credit' (or whatever they call it here...)? (I do not have a SS# of course.)

TIA

As I said check. I'm not all that up on SSA benefits but did a little digging when Jim was a PR but since he was married to a USC my credits count for him so I was relieved on that front. Now that he is a USC he will not have a problem. I do know that on the us.visa forum many HB workers have opted not to pay into SSA as they are limited on time allowed in the US and know they will never be here long enough to earn 40 credits (10 years normally) unless they are sponsored for a greencard.

The US does not have any credit program for homemakers.
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Old May 1st 2005, 1:20 am
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Default Re: SS for 'dependents'

Originally Posted by Rete
The US does not have any credit program for homemakers.
DAK what would happen to a woman who brings up a family and then takes care of, say, a disabled relative, and never ever takes up paid employment? Would she not get anything (state pension, Medicare benefits etc) at all?
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Old May 1st 2005, 5:23 am
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Default Re: SS for 'dependents'

Originally Posted by DonnaElvira
Am I accumulating any SS/pension benefits at all?
As stated before you are not directly since you haven't earned any Social Security credits, but if your husband has earned enough to be fully insured; you are eligible for spouse benefits at age 62 or widow's benefits at 60 or 50 if you are found by SSA to be disabled or at any age if you have his child in your care that is under age 16 or disabled.

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10127.html
What Every Woman Should Know

To be eligible for Social Security benefits in the U.S. you only need to be here legally. Outside of the U.S. if you are not a U.S. citizen it will depend on your country of citizenship and how long you lived in the U.S. married

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10137.html
Your Payments While You Are Outside The United States

http://policy.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0300204010
RS 00204.010 Lawful Presence Payment Provisions

On August 22, 1996, the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 (PRWORA or Public Law 104-193) was signed into law. Section 401(a) of the Personal Responsibility Act places restrictions on the payment of benefits to aliens in the U.S. under title II of the Social Security Act. Section 401(b)(2) of PRWORA, however, provides an exception allowing any alien eligible for benefits under title II of the Social Security Act to be paid when he/she is “lawfully present in the United States as determined by the Attorney General.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://policy.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0300204025
RS 00204.025 Evidence Requirements for Establishing U.S Lawful Presence

B. PROCEDURE - DEVELOPING EVIDENCE OF U.S. LAWFUL PRESENCE

2. An alien who has been inspected and admitted to the United States and who has not violated the terms of the immigration status under which he/she was admitted or to which he/she has changed after admission.

Use the following table to develop evidence of lawful presence under this category.

If an alien was admitted as a. A Non-immigrant in classes A-S; “TD” and “TN” (NAFTA professionals); and “V” (aliens covered by the Legal Immigration Family Equity Act of 2000),

Then obtain Immigration Form I-94 (Immigration Form I-94 (Arrival/Departure Record), generally issued at the time of admission to the U.S., annotated with the nonimmigrant alien classification under which the alien was admitted and the date to which the stay in the U.S. has been authorized.
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Old May 1st 2005, 5:57 am
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Default Re: SS for 'dependents'

Originally Posted by DonnaElvira
Thanks, Rete. His statement says: "To get retirement benefits, you need 40 credits of work. Your record shows you have at least 16 credits at this time, including assumed credits for last year and this year if you continue to work".

Presumably this shows that he is (or will be) eligible, or am I reading this wrong?

As far as I am concerned: I realise that I do not accummulate credit of my own, but do I get 'homemaker credit' (or whatever they call it here...)? (I do not have a SS# of course.)

TIA
Well first thing is if you would become eligible for Social Security benefits you must have an SSN to be paid and receiving Social Security benefits is a valid non work reason to be assigned an SSN.

http://policy.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0100203510
RM 00203.510 Alien without Work Authorization - Nonwork Need for an SSN

B. POLICY - VALID REASONS TO ASSIGN AN SSN FOR NONWORK PURPOSES

1. Examples of Federally Funded Benefits

a. Title II Benefit

The Social Security Act (42 USC 405(c)(2)(F)) requires a Social Security beneficiary to provide his/her SSN as a condition for receipt of benefits under title II of the Social Security Act.

OK next thing for some survivors benefits the deceased workers may only need to be "currently insured" not "fully insured" as they need to be with retirement benefits.

http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/...book-0211.html
Summary chart of requirements for insured status.

http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/...book-0203.html
Fully insured status defined.

http://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/...book-0206.html
Currently insured status defined

The other thing is that since the Social Security Statement is a benefit estimate it assumes some things in totaling the credits earned.

http://policy.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0101310005
RM 01310.005 General Description of Form SSA-7005-SM, the Social Security
StatementSocial Security Statement

4. Projected Credits

If the SSN holder is not already insured for benefits based on electronically available credits, the Statement system may use projected credits to calculate insured status.

a. Projecting Credits for Retirement Insured Status

The system uses the projected earnings described in RM 01310.005C.3. to project up to 8 additional credits (e.g., up to 4 for the current year, and up to 4 for the year before the Statement is prepared). The system determines the number of projected credits by dividing the projected earnings (if any) for the:

-- current year by the amount needed to earn a credit for the current year;

-- year before the statement is prepared by the amount needed to earn a credit for that year.

b. Projecting Credits for Disability and Survivor Insured Status

When calculating the current year's credits for disability and survivor insured status, the system may not project the same number of credits as it does for retirement insured status. That is, the projected credits for the current year may be less than the maximum of 4. The difference in credit projections is because the system counts the credits up to different points during the year:

-- The utility that calculates insured status projects credits for the entire current year for retirement benefit estimates.

-- For disability and survivor benefits estimates, the utility only counts credits up to the quarter of disability onset or death. For the Social Security Statement, the Statement system assumes the disability onset to have occurred in the quarter the Statement was prepared and death to have occurred in the month the Statement was prepared.
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Old May 1st 2005, 6:06 am
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Default Re: SS for 'dependents'

While we are talking about Social Security and credits, you may find this interesting.

RS 00301.102 Additional Requirements for Alien Workers- Social Security Protection Act of 2004

F. EXAMPLES

4. SSN Assigned On or After 1/1/2004: Alien NH Has "Work SSN," Prior Status as Undocumented Alien

Gustav entered the U.S. without inspection (i.e., he was an undocumented alien) on 4/16/97. He worked without authorization from DHS for several years in covered employment using his brother's name and SSN. He applied for admission as a lawfully admitted permanent resident alien (LAPR) and was granted LAPR status on 3/13/04. Gustav applied for an SSN on 4/27/04 and was assigned an SSN and issued an SSN card for work purposes on 5/12/04.

He became disabled on 6/22/04. Gustav, his wife and children applied for Title II benefits on 6/30/04. The children are U.S. citizens; the wife is LAPR. Gustav's own SSN was originally assigned on or after 1/1/04; therefore, we have to determine whether he meets the requirements of Section 211 of the SSPA. Since Gustav had been issued an SSN card for work purposes on 5/14/04, he meets the requirements of Section 211 of the SSPA. Therefore, determine whether Gustav meets DIB insured status using all of his covered earnings, including wages and/or self-employment income earned while he worked illegally under his brother's SSN.

Take the necessary corrective action to move Gustav's earnings as an undocumented alien from his brother's record and/or the suspense file to the earnings record for his own SSN. All of Gustav's covered earnings may be used to establish quarters of coverage and to determine insured status. If Gustav meets the applicable insured status test(s), process an award. If he does not meet the insured status test(s), process an insured status disallowance.

NOTE: Gustav's wife and children can be entitled if he is entitled to benefits. Also, Gustav and his wife must meet the lawful presence requirement if they are in the U.S.
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Old May 1st 2005, 6:19 am
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Default Re: SS for 'dependents'

Originally Posted by DonnaElvira
DAK what would happen to a woman who brings up a family and then takes care of, say, a disabled relative, and never ever takes up paid employment? Would she not get anything (state pension, Medicare benefits etc) at all?
What is she living off of while doing this?

People age 65 and older may receive Supplemental Security Income (SSI) even if they have never work in SSA covered employment, but most aliens aren't eligible for SSI benefits.

SSA pays spouse, divorced spouse, widow, disabled widow, surviving divorced spouse, disabled surviving divorced spouse, mother/father's, parent, child, disabled adult child benefits, so very few people aren't eligible for some type of benefit.
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Old May 1st 2005, 10:52 am
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Default Re: SS for 'dependents'

Thank you so much Mike for making this information known and available to Donna and the board. Knew I could count on the residence SSA guru to point her in the right direction.

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Old May 1st 2005, 1:39 pm
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Default Re: SS for 'dependents'

WOW - THANK YOU!!!

I did not expect such thorough answers to my questions - thank you so much! There's a lot here to chew over - I'll print it out and peruse it at leisure.

Would you mind clarifying the reference to I-94s as proof of legal presence;
"Then obtain Immigration Form I-94 (Immigration Form I-94 (Arrival/Departure Record), generally issued at the time of admission to the U.S., annotated with the nonimmigrant alien classification under which the alien was admitted and the date to which the stay in the U.S. has been authorized."

I travel fairly frequently and have not kept copies of any I-94s issued prior to our Green Card applications. Thus I only have my H4 visas and the entry stamps (with date of authorised legal stay) in my passport. As SSA is concerned, would this be sufficient to show that I have been here legally since 2001?

Thanks again- karma coming your way!
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Old May 1st 2005, 1:41 pm
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Default Re: SS for 'dependents'

Originally Posted by Rete
Thank you so much Mike for making this information known and available to Donna and the board. Knew I could count on the residence SSA guru to point her in the right direction.

Rete
Rete - I think these answers would be of interest to a lot of posters, both present and future. Might it be possible to add them to the FAQ?

Thanks!

ELVIRA
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Old May 1st 2005, 2:21 pm
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Default Re: SS for 'dependents'

Originally Posted by DonnaElvira
WOW - THANK YOU!!!

I did not expect such thorough answers to my questions - thank you so much! There's a lot here to chew over - I'll print it out and peruse it at leisure.

Would you mind clarifying the reference to I-94s as proof of legal presence;
"Then obtain Immigration Form I-94 (Immigration Form I-94 (Arrival/Departure Record), generally issued at the time of admission to the U.S., annotated with the nonimmigrant alien classification under which the alien was admitted and the date to which the stay in the U.S. has been authorized."

I travel fairly frequently and have not kept copies of any I-94s issued prior to our Green Card applications. Thus I only have my H4 visas and the entry stamps (with date of authorised legal stay) in my passport. As SSA is concerned, would this be sufficient to show that I have been here legally since 2001?

Thanks again- karma coming your way!
They only want proof of you currently being here legally. They would try to verify you status the same when they do for an SSN. First through SAVE and then by sending the G-845 for manual verification. If you read this:

RS 00301.102 Additional Requirements for Alien Workers- Social Security Protection Act of 2004

F. EXAMPLES

You will see that the guy worked illegally and is now legal and they are giving him credit for his illegal work.
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Old May 1st 2005, 2:24 pm
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Default Re: SS for 'dependents'

Thanks - much appreciated!
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