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Sick In America - It Can Happen To You

Sick In America - It Can Happen To You

Old Sep 28th 2007, 2:47 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Sick In America - It Can Happen To You

Originally Posted by jumping doris
I only know that some of the people we have met here, locally are unaware of the positive aspects of other systems.
Having used both systems I know which I prefer. So many people here haven't used both and rely on hearsay.
...OK but there's anecdote, and then there's polling:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2528357.shtml

9 out of 10 think the system is flawed, over half believe it is fundementally flawed. Two thirds support guaranteed healthcare. Just sayin'...
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Old Sep 28th 2007, 2:52 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Sick In America - It Can Happen To You

Originally Posted by another bloody yank
Well, my argument is that if the Gov't has a hand in it, it will be crap. I don't think I need to provide examples of Gov't bureaucracy gone insane to most of you here. I realize something must be done, I'm just sorry we can't make the system we have now more affordable, with some provision for the indigent.
Whereas if insurance companies have a hand in it 6% of GDP will go up in smoke to pay for the administration of healthcare. And that's not even including the cost of time spent by individuals fighting their insurance companies, like I've just being doing over a bill for one of my daughters. Btw, you presumably are all for scrapping the armed forces too?

Anyway, socialized medicine per se (in that the government is the actual provider of healthcare a la NHS) will not happen over here. What's more likely is that some kind of single payer system will evolve, or at least for those that cannot get insurance at a reasonable cost.
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Old Sep 28th 2007, 2:55 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Sick In America - It Can Happen To You

Originally Posted by guyb
Not living in the states - how does the argument against "socialized medicine" go?
you commie barstewards...
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Old Sep 28th 2007, 2:59 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Sick In America - It Can Happen To You

Originally Posted by Hiro11
...Michael Moore's premise seemed to be "Americans think they have a perfect healthcare system, I'll show them how they're wrong", but I think the vast majority of already understand the system doesn't work.
but surprisingly enough, well to me at least, just the number of people who I've met who believe the BS about how great the system is and how bad it would be to have a public healthcare system, all because they are healthy, have good insurance and haven't known anyone to have been seriously ill.
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Old Sep 28th 2007, 3:05 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Sick In America - It Can Happen To You

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
Whereas if insurance companies have a hand in it 6% of GDP will go up in smoke to pay for the administration of healthcare. And that's not even including the cost of time spent by individuals fighting their insurance companies, like I've just being doing over a bill for one of my daughters. Btw, you presumably are all for scrapping the armed forces too?
Anyway, socialized medicine per se (in that the government is the actual provider of healthcare a la NHS) will not happen over here. What's more likely is that some kind of single payer system will evolve, or at least for those that cannot get insurance at a reasonable cost.
I'm concerned about mismanagement in the armed forces as well. I do think that's a pretty good indicator of how a NHS style system would fare in the US, and that's what scares me.
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Old Sep 28th 2007, 3:07 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Sick In America - It Can Happen To You

Originally Posted by fatbrit
Most Americans I meet don't understand at all. They have been subjected to a decade or more of constant propaganda paid for by those who wish the status quo to remain. Their opinions, I find, are usually based on total ignorance.
This is also 100% my experience.

I think the key phrase is 'total ignorance'
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Old Sep 28th 2007, 3:07 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: Sick In America - It Can Happen To You

Originally Posted by Bob
you commie barstewards...
Nahh.. more like

"goddam pinko commie nutsacks, we kicked your red asses all round Hollywood with good ol McCarthy, dagnabit stand on yer own two feet yer yeller livered red assed pinko commie fag, I've been bankrupt 4 times paying fuh cough syrup for muh 70 a day Marlboro habit an it ain't hurt me nun. And when I lost muh marbles fightin' the gooks in 'Nam I went bankrupt agin cuzza the VA not footin th' bill but yer dunt see me whinin none. By the way, you got some change to spare, I haven't eaten in weeks?"
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Old Sep 28th 2007, 3:08 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Sick In America - It Can Happen To You

Originally Posted by Bob
but surprisingly enough, well to me at least, just the number of people who I've met who believe the BS about how great the system is and how bad it would be to have a public healthcare system, all because they are healthy, have good insurance and haven't known anyone to have been seriously ill.
That certainly matches my experience... in fact, I've had otherwise sensible people recoil when I've explained that, yes, I did visit NHS doctors when I lived in the UK. The vested interests in the current system have done a great job of scaring the "middle classes" into thinking the alternatives will be worse.
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Old Sep 28th 2007, 3:10 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Sick In America - It Can Happen To You

the (un)holy trinity of the Food, Healthcare/Pharma and Insurance companies will ensure that universal access to affordable healthcare will never happen.
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Old Sep 28th 2007, 3:10 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Sick In America - It Can Happen To You

Originally Posted by another bloody yank
I'm concerned about mismanagement in the armed forces as well. I do think that's a pretty good indicator of how a NHS style system would fare in the US, and that's what scares me.
You didn't answer the question - would you scrap the armed forces? Or would you work hard to fix what you perceive as the problems in that government-provided service? Do you have similar qualms about a single-payer system such as France's?

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Old Sep 28th 2007, 3:13 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: Sick In America - It Can Happen To You

Originally Posted by Hiro11
...OK but there's anecdote, and then there's polling:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2528357.shtml

9 out of 10 think the system is flawed, over half believe it is fundementally flawed. Two thirds support guaranteed healthcare. Just sayin'...
I read the whole thing..quickly, including the 22 page full report and I didn't see much evidence of knowledge of other countries systems, more a general dissatisfaction with this one.
I have just found, personally, that although some of my friends are not happy with the US system they are very wary of a national health service.

The other thing that rang a few alarm bells about that poll was a general desire for reform but within the same "personal insurance" based system which presumably would mean you would still get clobbered for all the copays and deductibles and they are the killer.
I certainly wouldn't mind paying more if it meant more uninsured could become insured but that stilll doesn't take away the problem of not being able to afford your 20% or so, of your treatment.

My OH is medical and he has patients that are sent home from the hospital because they have used up all their overnight stays and they didn't have many in the first place. They can stay but only if they pay the full amount and they can't afford to.

It is the same in the UK in some ways because the people who have power are generally very rich and never need to worry about being in that sort of situation themselves.
Lets face it Gordon Brown will never have to wait on a trolley in a corridor and George Bush will never go without treatment because his policy won't pay.
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Old Sep 28th 2007, 3:18 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Sick In America - It Can Happen To You

Originally Posted by jumping doris
My OH is medical and he has patients that are sent home from the hospital because they have used up all their overnight stays and they didn't have many in the first place. They can stay but only if they pay the full amount and they can't afford to.
The very same thing happened to my daughter's 16 yr old school friend who was dying of cancer. How the hell can they do that to a child? :curse::curse::curse:
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Old Sep 28th 2007, 3:19 pm
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Default Re: Sick In America - It Can Happen To You

Originally Posted by another bloody yank
We'll have some sort of National healthcare within ten years. Maybe sooner if Orpah keeps scaring the shit out of people. That's if the US is still around in ten years.
Why?

Originally Posted by jumping doris
I only know that some of the people we have met here, locally are unaware of the positive aspects of other systems.
Several of my friends have assumed that we must be very pleased to live in a country with such fantastic healthcare and they have been very surprised when we have said we find it worse here.

They have believed some of the following:
No cancer treatment in the UK.
A wait of many years for cancer treatment.
No medical research.
No care for old people at all.
No modern treatments.
Very dirty hospitals.
Massive taxes to pay for everything.

Having used both systems I know which I prefer. So many people here haven't used both and rely on hearsay.
Right on.

Originally Posted by fatbrit
Most Americans I meet don't understand at all. They have been subjected to a decade or more of constant propaganda paid for by those who wish the status quo to remain. Their opinions, I find, are usually based on total ignorance.
Most of my friends are professionals, and they don't know the first thing about healthcare in other countries.

Originally Posted by Titchski
the (un)holy trinity of the Food, Healthcare/Pharma and Insurance companies will ensure that universal access to affordable healthcare will never happen.
Yup
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Old Sep 28th 2007, 3:21 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Sick In America - It Can Happen To You

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl
The very same thing happened to my daughter's 16 yr old school friend who was dying of cancer. How the hell can they do that to a child? :curse::curse::curse:
It is inhumane.
Things like that just should not happen , it makes my blood boil:curse::curse:
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Old Sep 28th 2007, 3:23 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Sick In America - It Can Happen To You

Originally Posted by jumping doris
It is inhumane.
Things like that just should not happen , it makes my blood boil:curse::curse:
Then the insurance company refused to pay for any more treatment at Sloane Kettering in NYC. Her parents had to find an alternative hospital in NJ. :curse::curse::curse:
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