View Poll Results: should people be charged for the aid they received in NO?
yes
8
16.33%
no
41
83.67%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll
Should people be billed for being rescued?
Sep 2nd 2005, 11:25 am
#16
BE Irregular
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Tampa Bay Florida
Posts: 4,866
Re: Should people be billed for being rescued?
If the majority in the Superdome were poverty stricken, as is being stated, then they were probably renters. Will they be charged rent if their homes are not liveable?
I thought the food & water they got was not provided at the superdome, they brought it with them or went without.
Could they sue FEMA for false imprisonment?
I thought the food & water they got was not provided at the superdome, they brought it with them or went without.
Could they sue FEMA for false imprisonment?
Sep 2nd 2005, 11:43 am
#17
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: East Seaxe
Posts: 73,211
Re: Should people be billed for being rescued?
Ahem, my guess is that Manc is pointing out the inconsistency of the fact that, in a political and social culture that glorifies individualism, self sufficiency, survival of the fittest, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, and villifies social programs, welfare, socialized medicine, collective action, dislikes tax supported government programs of so many sorts, and of course, the paying of the taxes themselves, prefers private education, private healthcare, private transportation, private initiative of all kinds, people are now screaming "why doesn't the government DO something, why weren't they ready, why weren't the levees built up properly, why weren't the National Guard here the moment the hurrican hit, why wasn't there state-organised evacuation, etc. etc. etc. And the pointing out of this inconsistency is a very valid and acute observation, as is the provocation of discussion as to whether the U.S. principle of organising society, is, in fact, the correct one, the one that works.
Sep 2nd 2005, 11:47 am
#18
Septicity
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 23,762
Re: Should people be billed for being rescued?
Originally Posted by snowbunny
In this country we tend not to bill people for emergency services involving rescue.
http://www.phoenix.gov/CERT/natural.html#STUPID
Sep 2nd 2005, 11:52 am
#19
The Unmod
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Glen Mills, PA
Posts: 8,870
Re: Should people be billed for being rescued?
Originally Posted by fatbrit
But sometimes yes!
http://www.phoenix.gov/CERT/natural.html#STUPID
http://www.phoenix.gov/CERT/natural.html#STUPID
That is if you move or drive around barricades to get to the water.
Sep 2nd 2005, 11:57 am
#20
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 249
Re: Should people be billed for being rescued?
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
Ahem, my guess is that Manc is pointing out the inconsistency of the fact that, in a political and social culture that glorifies individualism, self sufficiency, survival of the fittest, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, and villifies social programs, welfare, socialized medicine, collective action, dislikes tax supported government programs of so many sorts, and of course, the paying of the taxes themselves, prefers private education, private healthcare, private transportation, private initiative of all kinds, people are now screaming "why doesn't the government DO something, why weren't they ready, why weren't the levees built up properly, why weren't the National Guard here the moment the hurrican hit, why wasn't there state-organised evacuation, etc. etc. etc. And the pointing out of this inconsistency is a very valid and acute observation, as is the provocation of discussion as to whether the U.S. principle of organising society, is, in fact, the correct one, the one that works.
Agreed, a paradox. However, some issues transcend that. Not likely that inidividuals would organise their own army. 300 years ago, yes, but the game has moved on a tad. Nuclear superpower. Not likely to be anything other than a national collective, tax funded effort.
Military Aid to Civilian Powers (MACP). This is a tenet of UK defence policy. No different here, though I don't know the buzzword in vogue here.
The hurricane caught people out. It's not about blamestorming, it's about saving lives. (And bringing to justice the looters and rapists)
Sep 2nd 2005, 12:00 pm
#21
The Unmod
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Glen Mills, PA
Posts: 8,870
Re: Should people be billed for being rescued?
Originally Posted by Roadster280
The thought of monetary concerns at this stage is outrageous to me. There are TENS OF THOUSANDS of people suffering and dying at the hands of dehydration, starvation and disease.
To my mind, this could be rapidly eased by the DoD. Speaking as an ex soldier, the DoD have:
Field hospitals
Hospital ships
Aircraft carriers (huge mobile "halls" with catering, water and shelter)
Thousands of helicopters
Tens of thousands of troops
Amphibious and 4x4 trucks by the thousand
The means to rapidly move large numbers of people in military transport planes that can operate on poorly prepared surfaces (i.e roads)
Empty army barracks and aircraft hangars
A million tents, cots, sleeping bags, etc
MREs (military rations, quick and easy, hygenic food)
A couple of battalions of MPs to quell the disorder
To my mind, this disaster will see people dying unneccessarily. Who was asking about money in NYC on the fateful day? It isn't about money now, it is about saving lives.
I was in NO a few weeks back. I could cry at the scenes now.
Yes, those that stayed may have made a poor judgement call, but who could have predicted this?
To my mind, this could be rapidly eased by the DoD. Speaking as an ex soldier, the DoD have:
Field hospitals
Hospital ships
Aircraft carriers (huge mobile "halls" with catering, water and shelter)
Thousands of helicopters
Tens of thousands of troops
Amphibious and 4x4 trucks by the thousand
The means to rapidly move large numbers of people in military transport planes that can operate on poorly prepared surfaces (i.e roads)
Empty army barracks and aircraft hangars
A million tents, cots, sleeping bags, etc
MREs (military rations, quick and easy, hygenic food)
A couple of battalions of MPs to quell the disorder
To my mind, this disaster will see people dying unneccessarily. Who was asking about money in NYC on the fateful day? It isn't about money now, it is about saving lives.
I was in NO a few weeks back. I could cry at the scenes now.
Yes, those that stayed may have made a poor judgement call, but who could have predicted this?
Sep 2nd 2005, 12:04 pm
#22
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 249
Re: Should people be billed for being rescued?
Originally Posted by paddingtongreen
They knew this was a big storm, they should have issued standby orders then.
Sep 2nd 2005, 12:06 pm
#23
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 249
Re: Should people be billed for being rescued?
Originally Posted by Roadster280
The hurricane caught people out. It's not about blamestorming, it's about saving lives. (And bringing to justice the looters and rapists)
Next, as time allows, its about federally raping the looters and looting the rapists.
Sep 2nd 2005, 6:45 pm
#24
Banned
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 157
Re: Should people be billed for being rescued?
Originally Posted by Manc
If people are in danger with a potential health crisis in New Orleans, should they be billed for the time they spent in the Super Dome / food / water / aid / bus tickets to Houston?
I'm gonna take all your shit then **** your wife. You gonna shot me?
Hell yeah!!!
This is the land we live in.
Sep 3rd 2005, 2:26 am
#25
Homebody
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: HOME
Posts: 23,182
Re: Should people be billed for being rescued?
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
Ahem, my guess is that Manc is pointing out the inconsistency of the fact that, in a political and social culture that glorifies individualism, self sufficiency, survival of the fittest, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, and villifies social programs, welfare, socialized medicine, collective action, dislikes tax supported government programs of so many sorts, and of course, the paying of the taxes themselves, prefers private education, private healthcare, private transportation, private initiative of all kinds, people are now screaming "why doesn't the government DO something, why weren't they ready, why weren't the levees built up properly, why weren't the National Guard here the moment the hurrican hit, why wasn't there state-organised evacuation, etc. etc. etc. And the pointing out of this inconsistency is a very valid and acute observation, as is the provocation of discussion as to whether the U.S. principle of organising society, is, in fact, the correct one, the one that works.
Sep 3rd 2005, 2:45 am
#26
@matthewb76
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 21,886
Re: Should people be billed for being rescued?
Originally Posted by DonnaElvira
Can't give you karma yet for this, though you deserve it - a concise summary of the effects of US culture of the individual on society, and the resulting consequences.
which was my point.
Sep 3rd 2005, 5:14 am
#27
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,296
Re: Should people be billed for being rescued?
Originally Posted by Manc
and she basically pointed out that deep down, American society isn't working.
which was my point.
which was my point.
American society isn't working- we know that. But there's no inconsistency here. Natural disasters are not political issues but humanitarian ones..they transcend the political and social ideology. Under federal law, hurricanes, earthquakes, flooding are 'events of such severity and magnitude' that are beyond the capabilities of local and State governments (let alone individuals). As such under Federal law, disaster relief is a Federal responsibility, the federal government and the Dept of homeland security.
People are justifiably angry and questioning why the Federal response was so slow and there are major questions to be asked here and heads should roll.
Why the levees weren't strengthened and questions of that nature are where the inconsistencies lie. But disaster relief is quite clearly a Federal responsibility.
Sep 5th 2005, 11:52 am
#28
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 22,105
Re: Should people be billed for being rescued?
I just plucked this little tidbit off of CNN, but I thought it worthy of this thread.
Rescue 'ticket'
Posted: 6:24 p.m. ET
CNN's Drew Griffin in New Orleans, Louisiana
I am stunned by an interview I conducted with New Orleans Detective Lawrence Dupree. He told me they were trying to rescue people with a helicopter and the people were so poor they were afraid it would cost too much to get a ride and they had no money for a "ticket." Dupree was shaken telling us the story. He just couldn't believe these people were afraid they'd be charged for a rescue.
Rescue 'ticket'
Posted: 6:24 p.m. ET
CNN's Drew Griffin in New Orleans, Louisiana
I am stunned by an interview I conducted with New Orleans Detective Lawrence Dupree. He told me they were trying to rescue people with a helicopter and the people were so poor they were afraid it would cost too much to get a ride and they had no money for a "ticket." Dupree was shaken telling us the story. He just couldn't believe these people were afraid they'd be charged for a rescue.
Sep 5th 2005, 1:51 pm
#29
@matthewb76
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 21,886
Re: Should people be billed for being rescued?
Originally Posted by AmerLisa
I am stunned by an interview I conducted with New Orleans Detective Lawrence Dupree. He told me they were trying to rescue people with a helicopter and the people were so poor they were afraid it would cost too much to get a ride and they had no money for a "ticket." Dupree was shaken telling us the story. He just couldn't believe these people were afraid they'd be charged for a rescue.
Sep 5th 2005, 2:03 pm
#30
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 22,105
Re: Should people be billed for being rescued?
Originally Posted by Manc
If they'd have collapsed with a heart attack in the street they would be charged.......
