Barratie

And may I say, a very wise choice indeed given that the country is continuing to "go to the dogs" as it has been for decades. Imagine my mortification this morning when I sat at my desk with a coffe to be greeted by this uplifting headline:

Sharia law in the UK.

I've been saying on forums here for the past week that the UK is a dump, has poor standards of service, high incidence of inconsiderate neighbors, rising gun crime etc and completely overlooked our other bad points, of which it seems there are many.

My advice either don't bother coming here OR head back as fast as possible.

gingerliu

Gosh, you must come from a crap place in England. It's beautiful where I come from, green, middle class, friendly. I hate it when people generalize. There's so much homeless in America and so much crime. The poor are everywhere. Back home, I'm not used to all that, not even in London. There are good and bad things about all countries. Most people who have done well for themselves in their country will say how great it is, if they've done badly, they'll bad mouth it. Why is a bad headline in the uk the sign of bad things. The media is ever present, more than anytime before. What about the 60's with the Hinley and the 70's with Jack the Ripper. Did we say the country had gone to the dogs then? I read my local Hollywood newspaper, there's a back page devoted to crime for the past week -it's all sex crimes, GBH and robbery at gunpoint -and that's in Hollywood. Do people here say that the country has gone to the dogs? No. Stop whinging about the UK. I'm proud to be British and proud to be American.

Barratie

Ginger

The UK is overall doing one of three things:

a) Improving
b) Unchanging
c) Deteriorating

Which of these do you think is the case, and if I may press your further, why?

gingerliu

Improving. I am not from Liverpool but my family are and I visited the city in May and I was blown away. After decades of slum, there are million dollar flats, trendy bars, clubs and restaurants, etc.

I know that crime is on the up but gun crime, for instance has always been bad in places like Manchester, Drug crime in Glasgow, and the like. If it's getting out of hand, then places like London need to follow NYC's lead. That city is now one of the safest big cities around today.

When I lived in England I had to worry about the IRA (which I didn't) and getting mugged or raped when coming home after dark. I played it safe and I was lucky. This was ten-20 years ago. In the 80's there where drugs everywhere in the little village I lived in. In the 90's in London, I was chased, threatened, attacked, etc. But I took it in my stride, just like us Brits do. There were knives back then too. Just now, it's flavor of the month and makes the headlines....and makes great newspaper print and telly. The media pisses me off. I work in media. When i was home, i switched the telly on and all the channels where shouting out about murders and crime. No wonder people, like my mum, are scared to leave their homes.

backagen

It is a shocking headline, but then that's what British newspapers unfortunately seem to like doing.

If you read the full article though, it certainly does not imply that Sharia Law should be adopted in the UK, and it does explicitly state that such punishments as flogging, stoning and the chopping off of hands would be completely out of the question in the UK (although personally I think they might be suitable punishments for some of the crimes we hear about).

The UK is NOT "going to the dogs" that is a rediculous statement with no real foundation.

Pollyana

You have been told repeatedly that if you have nothing of value to offer to the Moving Back to the UK forum, then please stop posting on it.
This forum exists for the support of posters moving back, or wishing to move back. It does not exist so that you can repeatedly post in a way designed to provoke an argument.

Eric Hitchmo

Exactly. People who call the UK a dump are people whose lives there didn't quite turn out how they'd have liked, so they take their fustrations out by slagging the country, moaning about it on internet forums, pouring over UK websites and lapping up every bad news story to make themselves feel better about moving abroad or giving themselves an excuse to plan it. It doesn't matter if you have a great life and live in a beautiful part of the country - their life was crap, they lived in a crap place, they're not happy about something or other so the whole place is crap and that's the end of it. You can always spot them - they'll post some link to a bad news story they've found and go "there, see, I *told* you so". Anyone would think it's not actually possible to find a bad news story about anywhere else in the world. If an author on any of the UK news websites blogs anything negative about the UK, as sure as eggs is eggs there'll be replies from various social rejects who've washed up in um-Bongo land posting things like "..and that's why I'm glad I don't live there anymore!" etc etc. Who cares what they think. It's not like anyone misses them, although the way some of them talk, they seem to think people here are begging them to come back. If the country ever finds itself in dire need of no-mates moaners instead of nurses, doctors etc, I'm sure someone will be touch.

fulwood

Hey Gingerliu, Yep Ormskirk not far from Preston. Scotland right now is definitely a thought but a very strong one. I need to sell my house before I decide but I do wonder at times why I'm in US. I have friends but it has been hard through the years to find that one friend you can have whom you can always call and vent to or just look to for advice. I feel I've been a way a long time to and not sure if can make transition back to living in England but do know when I go back for holidays I enjoy the way of life in UK. I like the Northwest but like the peace and beauty of Scotland. Sorry for saying that but it's true. I have friends their as well. Jus spent too many lonely years in US and it takes its toll. Do love the opportunities that abound here though..

gingerliu

I know how you feel. I've only been here six years and I feel lonely. Lonely for Brit TV, humor, history, being part of that small island, even the royal family. I moved away from the north to London for uni. I guess I'm older now and want a quiet countryside base with benefits, i.e. trips away. That's why I like Berkeley because it is Green Belt like home, yet there's stuff to do and they are pretty cool ....and hippy. I know it won't be as laid bach as Berkeley and if I didn't have my sister and mum at home, I'd move back there eventually. But I also know how you feel about friends. I didn't find any realy friends until I let people help me. I was moving around and not trusting. I now have two very good friends in the Bay Area who I'm in contact with all the time and I miss. I don't have any friends in LA.

Scotland will be nice. You'll meet people is you decide to really make a go for it when you return. See what happens.

I even spoke to Americans who moved from elsewhere to LA, and it took them years before they found close friends. I guess it's easy when your young but as we are older, close friends are harder to come by. My good buddy in SF, I miss because I could be going out and having a laugh in SF on weekly basis if I lived up there, but I moved and had to get it out of my system.

I'd check on the forums and see if there are any others moving or have moved to Scotland.

gingerliu

Eric, very funny comment, by the way.

I worked with a fellow Brit at a school in SF. He had left the UK at 18 and he constantly bad mouthed the UK because he didn't have an education back home but in the USA he had a Masters. He constantly moaned that everyone moaned in the UK. The UK he was describing, I didn't recognize. American colleagues would come up to me and would ask if the UK was really crap with no opportunities. I told them how it was for me, a wonderful place, cool, hip, full of history, got an education, jobs, sense of humor, money. I met other Brits and they bad mouth also. I think when we move to another country we try stuff we maybe wouldn't have tried in our own country. Of course, I do believe that Americans have an attitude to die for. I love their 'can do' attitude. I certainly didn't have that until I'd been living here a while. Wow, look at all these people around who believe they can do anything....then I started to believe. It's a great, great attitude.

Kali-forniarrr

I guess the bottom line is that everywhere is dynamic in that social change is continual. If you are not in a society for a while, things move on the longer you are away and they are more apparent on return. After a short time of assimilation on return, all is the same again as an accepted norm. Certainly from my own experience, the US I knew first in 1999 is somewhat different than now. As with every else in the world. That's just life.

I think the biggest shock to any adjustment for returnees may be the cost of the UK. I did read recently that the UK currently has the highest cost of living in the "western world". I guess that is largely linked to housing and energy costs. The tax burden of course, provides for much of the UK social culture that people think is a benefit and helps attract new comers.

gingerliu

But don't you worry about healthcare? I no longer have a kick-ass job and now work for myself -I have no healthcare. I know I can use the free clinics if I have to but what if I was run over or something. An American friend in Chicago was hit by a traffic sign and he broke his leg. It cost him $50,000. Another American friend was run over on holiday in London over Christmas, she was in hospital for two weeks -it cost her nothing.

I guess it's this which is worrying me...the fact that if I grow old in the USA I may not have enough to keep me with a roof over my head, but if I was in the UK, a home would be provided. I'm only 39 but time is moving on. i've never thought about my future before, which is why I move around, free as a bird without any thought...I just started to worry this year after the realization that unless my published work makes me alot of money, I'm going to be poor and I don't want to be poor without a welfare system. And sometimes I just think, the hell with it, I''l go home, then live in Paris, then Thailand where my good friend is...and accept I'll have nothing in my old age.

I live a really laid back lifestyle -writing from home. I think I will travel always.

Are you ever going to return to the UK? See, I gave up on the housing thing when I left the UK, so that doesn't bother me.

Kali-forniarrr

Well never say never about returning. That said perhaps I'm more of a displaced person than most, grew up in a Commonwealth country...perhaps I shouldn't return to the "mother ship".

The healthcare thing is a serious consderation. I did post a thread about this elsewhere wondering if UK future policy change may exclude UK migrants from this. I think its a strong posssibility in the coming years as the NHS buckles.

I guess my plan ultimately will be to live in my house in the UK and end up using this one when I get fed up over there. But who knows...I think basically having a bolt hole is the ideal but maybe not here later on.

fulwood

Gingerliu, I know what you mean about healthcare as well as currently don't have any - can't afford it just as plain and simple as that. I fell couple of months ago playing tennis (fell on back, hit head) and everything at time appeared okay. My right arm has been hurting now for a while - certain movements are very painful and I am not sure what it is but just don't have the money to pay for it. It's not painful 24/7 so not too bad. I did not alos mean for my thread to imply anything is wrong with England - I have lived there before and just prefer Scotland - not anything to do with England.

I like you am proud to be both English and American - I have dual citizenship so makes life easier for moving back and forth. Good luck with everything..

fulwood

Gingerliu, I know what you mean about healthcare as well as currently don't have any - can't afford it just as plain and simple as that. I fell couple of months ago playing tennis (fell on back, hit head) and everything at time appeared okay. My right arm has been hurting now for a while - certain movements are very painful and I am not sure what it is but just don't have the money to pay for it. It's not painful 24/7 so not too bad. I did not also mean for my thread to imply anything is wrong with England - I have lived there before and just prefer Scotland - not anything to do with England.

I like you am proud to be both English and American - I have dual citizenship so makes life easier for moving back and forth. Good luck with everything..