rincewind

This post is for the secular people among us. If you hold deep religious beliefs then please do not read this thread so you can avoid being offended.

Basically, I want to know how Expats feel about the whole religion thing out here.

I live in the south Bush voting bible belt, and it amazes me how people think here. Only recently, "Evolution" was once again targeted to be removed from text books in Georgia. Thankfully, it didn't happen.

When we first moved into our home, we met our neighbours and they spent the whole time trying to get us to go to their church. We haven't been round since.

My wife's ex is just as bad. When her girls get sick, he spends his time on the phone telling them that the devil is making them sick. He believes that if a child gets sick and dies, that’s god’s will. Be bitches everytime my wife takes them to the doctors telling them that the medicine they are taking is poison. He even told them once that I am demon possessed, which is why I stole mommy from him.

My cousin (by marriage) is a cool guy. Your typical Nascar fanatic and he used to be a preacher. Religion was never a part of our discussions until recently. He wanted to debate religion and I agreed but only if we did it online and kept our face-to-face friendship as it has been. It's been a fun discussion and has not yet become an argument. He respects my views.

But my main concern is my career. I am still waiting for my EAD but I'm worried about my atheist views being a problem for job interviews. Has anyone else experienced this yet?

I would go as far as to list my political issues where religion is a factor but I fear this post could grow too long.

Am I the only one that feels like I am surrounded by religious fanatics?

NC Penguin

No-one should be asking you anything remotely related to your religious beliefs at a job interview. That's illegal. Only subjects related to the job should be discussed.

At the same time, you should avoid bringing up any subjects that could lead the interviewer into bringing religion into the interview too.

I do understand what you've described since I live in NC myself and there are so many churches and places of worship in my area. I'm not a churchgoer myself and none of my coworkers have mentioned religion to me fortunately.

However, I am discovering that there's a "religious network" in the workplace in that people in the same workplace quite often go to the same church.

Also, once in the workplace it's best to keep your opinions to yourself at the start so you can gauge how tolerant and/or open coworkers are about certain subjects. More often than not, I've found my coworkers will openly voice opinions that are far from tolerant so I've learnt quickly which subjects to avoid with specific people.

effi

I started off life in the States in Philly. I think it is the same wherever you go over here, religion is big. It amazed me when I first started work how religious people were. I am not a churchgoer and when I saw how much money people were giving to their respective churches it amazed me. My feeling has always been "you should not have to pay to pray", God is free to everyone.

Here in AZ the Mormons are a very big deal. In Mesa (a local town) they run most of the business, and things do not get done without them having some say in what goes on.

I am not sure what religion my next door neighbour is, but I know on Sundays her 4 kids are not allowed outside to play. She keeps bringing me cds of their church preachings and choir music, don't know why, but they head straight for the bin.

I had a black friend in Philly, Miss Julia, big old fat black woman. She was so cool. She invited me to her baptist church just to see what went on, cause she was always talking about it and I was curious. Well, my husband and I were the only 2 white people in the place, talk about unnerving. They have nurses in attendance at every church gathering, complete with uniforms and little pin on hats. I asked her why they were there and she told me "it is for when people get the spirit". I soon found out the reason, these people would get so wound up they would go into a trance and just fall over, they would stand up and sing unbidden and run around the church just praising the Lord. It was quite an eye opener. After church was the best bit, they all go into the basement where they have a huge dining room set up and have a pot luck, mmm, all that fried chicken, wonderful.

FlyergirlUK

I'm so lucky there's none of this religious crap in my face here! ('scuse the language but it ain't my bag).

Hubby's originally from Texas and despises his father's take on religion, (you know the one, my church is better than yours, my religion's the only one that means anything etc.).
There is nothing worse than having religion shoved down your throat, (well, opinions come a close second followed by what you're doing wrong with your life)!

Follow your beliefs, by all means but start preaching to me and you'll get a door in your face.

jcapulet

As NC Penguin said, asking about your religion at a job interview is quite illegal Although they may ask anyway, I cannot imagine a reason for asking that. If they ask, you can just say that you keep your personal life, including religion as just that: your personal life. And/or that religion does not and never has interfered with your *professional* life.

While I have a "chosen" religion, neither I nor my husband really practice it or go to church. I believe there is a "higher being" above us, yet sometimes I wonder if religion is merely a human creation? I guess I am the type of person that needs to see it to believe it. Oddly though, there have been times when I think that my prayers have been answered. So...I get a little confused about it all!

rincewind

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I was beginnning to think I had entered the Twilight Zone

I find a lot of the religious types here are sexist. They enjoy twisting the bible to their advantage.

FlyergirlUK

Not only sexist but hypocritical to boot - as inconsistent as the fairytale known as the bible.
My nan was a devout Methodist; one of their 'rules' - no alcohol but, she kept a bottle of something or other beside her chair in the sittingroom; talk about double standards!

That's true, they will only read the parts that they think apply to them and disregard the rest.
Compare it to reading your horoscope, you could relate to some bits of it and then, in your own mind, make the rest fit, it's easy enough done.

Duncs

Completely agree and understand exactly what you are saying. I am in Mississippi and i ****ing hate it here. I am so sick and tired of religous nutters and the disgusting racist, sexist, homophobic social attitudes that they propagate constantly.

My parents in law are very religous southern baptists and when we got here becuase we are living with them we felt we should make an effort to respect their faith and got dragged down to the church but the ministers sermons were so offensive i just wanted to throw a book at him (not the good book though!) when he did one on why only republicans are fit to vote for and protect gods views that was the last straw for me. I just refused to go any more. So now i wont go and my wife gets nagged by her dad about why we wont go. He says so many offensive things and i have to bite my tongue (its like chewed leather right now) so now i avoid talking to him and dread having to have a family meal because i just know Jesus and his views on Sodomy or something will come up. I used to be quite faithful when younger although during my time in the army i saw some bad things and my faith wobbled very badly. Since then i have been unhappy about going to church but not ready to be an atheist either. My experiences here have not only made me an atheist i have come to despise christians as well, which i know is wrong. My wife is up to her eyeballs in debts from college because while she was struggling to stay afloat in her masters degree her parents gave her nothing. Meanwhile they tithed and donated thousands and thousands of $ to the church to help build a new monstrosity and then buy the minsters his shiny new suits. It really ****s me off what kind of ****ed up priority system is it that tells you your kids welfare is less important than a stupid new building?

Personally i am hoping that it is only the south that is like this and that if i move somewhere different it will be much easier. I have a place at college in Boston and i want to go. My wife has a good job offer for june in Mississippi but if i have to stay down here i am either going to kill myself or climb a clocktower with my gun collection! Its agony.

I am thinking very seriously about just going back to blighty instead. I know in Britain i would whinge about lots of things but really i dont think i can take this much longer. Add the fact that the ****ing 'Passion' has just opened at the movies and the parents are all excited about it and i could just scream.

Who would have thought Jesus could make you feel so bad and so angry.

regards,

Duncan

dunroving

Two things surprise me:

How often God is brought into the conversation, with the underlying assumption that you are "in agreement" or "one of us" - I mean things like "It must have been God's will", "God takes care of us", "She's with the Lord now" - in non-religious conversations. It would be a little impolite to respond "Who says God exists?" or "God who?", but I find the assumption bordering on intrusive or offensive.

The other is that grace or a prayer/blessing is said in non-religious settings, again with the assumption that is OK with everyone present - I find this especially surprising when it occurs in my workplace (a university), at faculty social functions, for example - and at my first university job here, every staff/faculty meeting started with a prayer!

[later edit - I wonder how they would feel if I replied "yes, Allah is all-powerful"! Or bent down to pray to Mecca before the faculty meeting!]

Britfrombristol

In response to the original post I can offer my father in law as an example. He is a strong atheist origianly from West Point MS. By way of back ground the town is poor where getting suited and booted for a good Sunday parise the Lord session is the done thing. He now lives in the country in a very rural area right in the heart of MS. He has been in a very competitive area of sales all his life and makes 150k plus per annum in MS. His views certainly do not have appeared to have hampered his career. I would certainly suggest that your views on the matter are not advertised but as has been said it is illegal to ask beleifs at the interview stage or be discriminated because of them. I do realise that in reality. this may be different.

In response to Duncs, I can appreciate what you are saying re the seeming lack of focus on what is important in the family i.e. prioritising the church and their needs over those of your family. I note that you intend to move to Boston. Whilst I have not been up that far I do have a friend who I have visited several times in DC. The religous environment was certainly not as visable as it is in MS. You seem to have done so well to have come over here and gain entry to a law school after the difficult times you faced in the UK (I have seen your previous posts). Whilst you obviously have the ability to form your own views on what is best it would seem that you have come so far to turn back just because of the extreme views of some southerners. The US is a big old place and the northern states will be alot different to what goes on down here. Me personally, there is absolutely no ****ing way I could settle in MS. The environment is way to conservative for my liking and there really is little in the way of mental stimulation. That being said, if you are looking for a nice house etc, as a lawyer you could own a palace! In short, I would say take a trip to Boston which you could do quite cheaply. Stay there a few days and get a feel for the place before you invest all that money in law school. If nothing else it will give you a break from the south and the in-laws etc and enable you to make a more objective decision in respect of something as life determining as whether you stay to go to law school ( I assume if you are going to take this route you will stay here to practice).

As for me, well I'm going back to the UK on monday with my wife. Despite applying for 250 plus jobs I have yet to have even an interview. I have been bluntly told by several recruitment consultants that the fact I am a Legal Executive and have litigated many cases involving substantial amounts of money and managed in-house legal teams of 50 plus my experience is worth **** all. My wife who is an Int. Bus. Grad. has also had no luck save as to an interview with Cracker Barrel and an admin job at a BMW dealership. So, it has been a learning curve and for us the grass is not greener. I already have 5 interviews lined up for my return home and I can't wait. Whilst I have only been over here for a couple of months I have spent almost 1 year in the US in the last three, this coupled with the fact my wife is American, I have got to know quite a bit about the country. However from a long term career and personal point of view Blighty is the place for us. Nertheless, nothing ventured nothing gained.

Finally, duncs, without wanting to to sound like a religous nut it seems as if it is the people that you are around and not Jesus making you feel so bad and angry.

All the best.

rincewind

Sorry to hear that Duncs. I read your post to my wife and she felt sorry for you. Her only reply was "welcome to the South"

Seen the snake handling religions there yet?

I'm driving through Mississippi to Louisiana on I20 on Saturday, I'll look out for you

Don't give up being in the US yet. Although another 4 years of Presi Bush could tip you over the edge. And with the religious South clutching ballot tickets, it looks like he may do another term.

Although I am an Atheist and feel religion has no place in this day and age, if someone wants to hold onto belief to make it through their life then good for them. Just keep thy religion to thy self. Which is heard when all the wackos around here say that religion is a private thing one minute and then try to exorcise you the next.

rincewind

They wouldn't say anything, you'd just wake up the next morning in Guantanamo Bay

Duncs

I can really empathise. I had a senior position in the UK and i have lots of experience yet its seemingly worth **** all here. I started out trying for legal jobs (paralegal/ research associate etc) and ended up trying for jobs in retail and car sales! So far not a single interview in the 5 months here. My wife also has a masters degree and she has only found a job in retail and its not even full time so they dont have to give her health benefits. The grass is not greener here at all its just really well marketed but in truth its brown and dying as far as i can see.

Today i wrote to the English Bar Council to find out if i could apply to be called in england and if i can then i am going to start actively seeking a job in the UK. I think my US experiment is likely to come to an end but at least i will never wonder what if and i will know it was no loss to be back in the UK.

regards,

Duncan

Gross50

Having lived in britain I kinda understand what most expats are experiencing. I have colleagues who refused to relocate to the US and opted to resign and remain in the UK cause they thought there are too many churches over here. A recent BBC poll showed that britons are the most aetheist.

Every religion has its fair share of fanatics/lunatics. The world has come to expect Christians to behave like Jesus. Christians aspire to be like Christ. But you have to realise is that NO ONE is perfect, even the pope. And for that reason, catholic priests have bore the brunt of judgement by the society at large.

I don't think it is right for anyone to impose their views on others. we all have to respect other people's choice. We all have to be tolerant of other people's views.

Britfrombristol

Duncs,

There is a link from the Venables website to a firm who specialise in placement of counsel. They may be able to give you some answers and some opportunities. If there are complications with the Bar council could you use your skills in a more commercial environment where ability to advocate isn't crucial?

I agree with what you say re the marketing thing. The US are very good at marketing their country.

I also agree with the "what if" concept. This like you, had to be answered. I have also realised that the annual leave and travelling options which are more readily available to UK workers means more to me than how many square footage your house covers.

Good luck.