dollface

+1

MostlyYank

Public schools are public buildings, as such anyone has the right to use them, within the law.

Pete

Anian

Does Campfire USA do similar stuff? There's a group near me, since I'll be avoiding Scouts due to this politics I wasn't sure if they were worth looking into. Any other similar orgs in Washington state?

denzil75

I find this such a hard decision as a parent. We have had 2 years of scouting which my sons have loved. I hadn't known (naively on my part) about the ban on gay parents/children etc until quite recently. I have talked openly to the kids about how it is perfectly acceptable for men to live together and for women to live together and for kids to have 2 mums or 2 dads etc. One of our cousins is also gay living with his partner who we see everytime we are back in the UK. I'm now torn as to whether or not to sign up for the next year. I love all the parents who run our scout troop and I honestly don't think they would openly support the gay ban. We are a pretty low key group who tends to only do things within our pack rather than take part in national boy scout events. We are not an overly religious group and explain to the boys that if they want to complete the religious part of their achievement then they have to do it at home.

One of my sons has had a lot of anxieties socially and cub scouts has helped him to overcome some of these but I by no mean support the gay ban. As a parent I want to try and help my child overcome anxieties to give him the confidence to grow into a well rounded young man. But on the other hand I don't want to be supporting something that I totally disagree with either. We don't seem to have any other kids groups that are similar to boy scouts in our area, its all sports!

Nutek

Probably too busy... You know... Out in the woods..

Yorkieabroad

OK, like Daniel into the lions den…..My name’s Yorkie, and I’m a Scout parent….

I have to admit, the only reason I was aware of the BSA’s anti-gay policy was a similar thread to this one a few years ago. http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...nti-gay&page=2 It’s interesting how the tone of threads varies over the years!

I was in scouts as a kid in the UK, and thoroughly enjoyed it, so wanted to get my sons into it as well. It is very different here, but on the whole, the experience has been positive.

I’ve got a 9 year old in Cubs, and an 11 year old who has just moved up to scouts after doing 5 years in cubs, most of which I was den leader. They both really enjoy their time in scouts, and have got a lot out of it.

I can honestly say that the question of sexual orientation has never been raised or discussed at all in the cub pack as far as I am aware. Reflecting the local community, it has a very diverse membership across race, religion, disabilities, somewhat less so with sexual orientation –out of a pack of around 50 boys, there is one gay father with an adopted son that I know of. He joined 3 years ago, and I don’t know (or care) if anyone at BSA HQ knows about him or not. There are no questions about it on the membership form, so I’m not sure how they would find out, other than someone “dobbing him in”. I suspect most people in the Pack don’t even know the BSA stance on it, and wouldn’t care about this guy even if they did. The religious aspect is virtually non-existent in the pack – our chartered organization is a dentist, and in our area the packs are centered around schools. There are some church-based packs, but not so many. The comment about mainly being LDS packs certainly doesn’t hold true round us – LDS packs represent less than 10% of the enrollment. In other areas (Utah anyone?) I’m sure the opposite would be true. We do have a lay-minister as a member, but she prefers to keep out of it (“the kids want to have fun – they don’t want me beating the religious drum all the time!”). This disappointed me a little, because being non-religious myself (hence suitable for banning if BSA find out!), and missing RE in schools here, I was hoping for a little outside exposure to help my kids could form their own opinions……

The Scout Troop I’m not so sure about…I’ve not been there long enough to know much about it, but there seem to be at least 2 openly gay senior scouts (17yo-ish) in a troop of around 80-90. They have been in the troop since the start, so presumably at some point had to come out to the troop. They are still there, so again, that presumably means that no-one in the Troop cares sufficiently to report them to BSA to get them banned. The Troops chartered organization is one of the local Methodist churches, but among the boys there are Catholics, Buddhists a couple of Hindus and quite a few “nothings”. The Troop is a little more religious than the Pack, but not incredibly so…sufficient to get my elder son an “exposure” without a brainwashing.

So, I guess all I’m saying is that what is voted on at the executive level isn’t necessarily what is happening at grass roots level – other than send them our registration forms and fees once a year, we have very little to do with the BSA itself. I am sure there are packs and troops that are less tolerant than ours, that toe the party line better than we do, but at the moment, I’d say our Pack/Troop are teaching the kids tolerance, rather than legislating it out of them. In our experience, the Pack/Troop seem to be more reflective of the family/personal values of the members rather than any edicts voted on by a distant executive.

If BSA ever came down and said that the pack had to remove the gay parent from the membership, I suspect that would be the end of the Pack. It would certainly be the end of my younger son’s involvement with it.

If they ever came down and said the same for the gay scouts, that would be a massive learning experience for my elder son, which, knowing him as I think I do, I suspect would end the same way. I’m less certain what would happen to the Troop, mainly because I don’t know the people there so well.

That being said, I doubt the BSA is ever going to disappear as some have mentioned on here. I suspect what is more likely is that the executive will eventually drag themselves into the modern world and ditch the Victorian attitudes……the 2 dissenting voices mentioned earlier seem to be the toe in that particular door. The sooner the better as far as I am concerned because they are really not doing themselves any favours with those sort of prejudices - private organization or not.

kimilseung

Thanks for providing that perspective.

[note on the LDS, it is from here]

Yorkieabroad

So that looks about 25% LDS, 22% Methodist, 17% Catholic enrollment across the country - not really surprised at that, hardly a massive domination by the LDS packs, but like I said, our area is a slightly different mix.

By the way, why did you insert a quote from me that wasn't something I said? Just curious.....

kimilseung

You wrote too much to quote, I substituted with what I thought summarised what was important about your contribution.

Yorkieabroad

Odd. I was always taught not to quote someone unless I was actually quoting them..................

Looked to me like you were trying to put me as an insider to the anti-gay policy.

Which of course, you weren't.

See how things can be misread when you invent quotes?

HighCountry

So, um... back to the scouts.

It seems that, just like Chick Fil A, the BSA is going to face a backlash:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/major-l...0549--mls.html

Pombat

Here's a letter from an Eagle Scout who is returning his Eagle badge in protest.
http://imgur.com/XJNny

HighCountry

It's taking all my will power to avoid a grammar nazi comment, so I'll just do this:

David Armstrong

I was a scout in the UK for 12 years and both my sons 9 & 12 are scouts today here in Sweden. The WOSM (World Organization of the Scout Movement) only recognises one scouting organisation in each country. For example Canada has twelve but only Scouts of Canada are recognised and affiliated. America has only one! And they sue anyone who tries to start an opposing group using the word "Scout" You can thank the Congressional Charter for that!

"In the early years of Scouting in America, there were several other Scouting organizations (National Scouts of America, Peace Scouts of California, Polish National Alliance Scouts, Rhode Island Boy Scouts, United States Boy Scouts, Lone Scouts, and many more), like there are in Canada today. However, once BSA was granted the Congressional Charter in 1916, BSA used the provisions in the charter granting BSA exclusive rights to the name Boy Scouts, to file lawsuits against all of their rivals. Until they were the only one left standing by 1920.
The Congressionally granted trademark status makes it impossible to start any organization that is at all similar to the Boy Scouts. If the United States Scouts, bankrolled by William Randolph Hearst could not stand up to BSA's legal team in the 1910's, who can do so today?
The Girl Scouts got around the problem by obtaining their own Congressional charter with similar rights in 1951. But the BSA has been vigorous in going after any organization that uses the word scout anywhere in its name or literature. As recently as 1989, BSA threatened the the small Wilderness Scouts of Blairsville, Georgia. Even the YMCA, who started BSA, can't use the word scout anywhere in its materials, even though scouts were an important part of the Native American community that the Y Indian Guides were supposed to be emulating.
It is interesting to note that BSA complains about lawsuits against their membership policies and claim that they just want to be left alone. However, when another group even thinks of using the Scouting program for those children they reject, then BSA has no trouble in suing them. So, when someone says why don't the "gays start a gay scouting organization?" just point to the Congressional Charter prohibiting such action."

Want to know more about this and even other appalling issues concerning Boy Scouts of America? I was stunned when I read articles on this site. When I lived in New York many years ago I seriously consideredcome the time I had a family and hopefully boys of my own I would get them in to the scouts thank god my life took me in the direction of Sweden to raise my boys!

http://www.bsa-discrimination.org/

Check out there court cases!

David Armstrong

I would like to apologise to all the spelling and grammar nazis for my previous post. I was so ticked off that my keyboard was on fire and it all went to hell in the spelling and grammar department!