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Saverin expatriation.

Saverin expatriation.

Old May 18th 2012, 8:00 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Saverin expatriation.

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Go on then, I'll bite. What advantages does a US passport have over other, lesser, ones?
You have the privilege of getting taxed by the US on your worldwide income regardless of whether you're a resident of the US?

Last edited by Giantaxe; May 18th 2012 at 8:06 pm.
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Old May 18th 2012, 8:03 pm
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Default Re: Saverin expatriation.

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Go on then, I'll bite. What advantages does a US passport have over other, lesser, ones?
I no longer have to give USCIS any more money ...
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Old May 18th 2012, 8:06 pm
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Default Re: Saverin expatriation.

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
Go on then, I'll bite. What advantages does a US passport have over other, lesser, ones?
Why don't you ask that question of those on this forum who are looking for one?
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Old May 18th 2012, 8:07 pm
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Default Re: Saverin expatriation.

If you are killed in a US drone strike while abroad, the US government will have to come up with a lame justification, if you are a citizen. Whereas if you are not a citizen, they can ignore it completely?
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Old May 18th 2012, 8:08 pm
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Default Re: Saverin expatriation.

Originally Posted by moadikum View Post
Why don't you ask that question of those on this forum who are looking for one?
Why would you want to limit yourself to that subset?
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Old May 18th 2012, 8:12 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: Saverin expatriation.

Originally Posted by moadikum View Post
Why don't you ask that question of those on this forum who are looking for one?
Can you inform us of who they are?
Not being funny, but off the top of my head I do not remember anyone with the purpose of getting a US passport, I am sure there are examples you can point us to, but most people do the citizenship thing as just the next step and was not an end in itself.
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Old May 18th 2012, 8:36 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: Saverin expatriation.

I have both US and UK passports.

The US passport is great if you want to live and work in the US, but it is a big disadvantage if you live abroad because of the tax burden and the difficulty of foreign investing as a US citizen. There are still many people who covert US citizenship as they see it as a route to greater freedom and prosperity, but the same could be said of the people coming to the UK, Germany, Australia, Canada etc.

The UK passport is good to have as it lets you live and work in the EU and it does not have the same expatriate tax issues as a US passport.

I would only advise someone to take US citizenship if they intended to live in the US for the rest of their life. If there is any chance that they will live outside the US again I would tell them to avoid US citizenship like the plague.

I intend to retire to the UK and I have spent countless hours researching the associated tax and money issues/problems.

Last edited by nun; May 18th 2012 at 8:41 pm.
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Old May 18th 2012, 10:08 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: Saverin expatriation.

I don't mean to be rude nun. But if you want to avoid the over-arching financial implications and are intending to retire to the UK anyway, surely you could do what this Saverin guy has done and just ditch the US citizenship?
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Old May 19th 2012, 3:53 am
  #24  
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Default Re: Saverin expatriation.

Originally Posted by materialcontroller View Post
I don't mean to be rude nun. But if you want to avoid the over-arching financial implications and are intending to retire to the UK anyway, surely you could do what this Saverin guy has done and just ditch the US citizenship?
Yes I could. But I have many years of SS payments and my retirement money is all in US based funds and keeping US citizenship is a way to protect myself against the sort of stuff that Schumer is proposing. As an NRA with money in the US you leave yourself at the mercy of some pretty veinal politicians. The way the legislation is right now my life would be simpler if I were to give up US-citizenship after I moved back to the UK because as only a UK citizen resident in the UK my US SS and income from US based retirement accounts wouldn't be US taxable. My taxes would probably not be much different because of the tax rates in the UK, but the paperwork burden would be a lot less. But I'll probably deal with the paperwork and the inconvenience as being a US expat abroad is probably safer than being an ex US citizen NRA with money in the US. Honestly I'd rather that I'd just stayed with the Greencard and never taken US citizenship now that I am planning to live in the UK,

Last edited by nun; May 19th 2012 at 4:08 am.
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Old May 19th 2012, 5:42 am
  #25  
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Default Re: Saverin expatriation.

Originally Posted by nun View Post
Yes I could. But I have many years of SS payments and my retirement money is all in US based funds and keeping US citizenship is a way to protect myself against the sort of stuff that Schumer is proposing. As an NRA with money in the US you leave yourself at the mercy of some pretty veinal politicians. The way the legislation is right now my life would be simpler if I were to give up US-citizenship after I moved back to the UK because as only a UK citizen resident in the UK my US SS and income from US based retirement accounts wouldn't be US taxable. My taxes would probably not be much different because of the tax rates in the UK, but the paperwork burden would be a lot less. But I'll probably deal with the paperwork and the inconvenience as being a US expat abroad is probably safer than being an ex US citizen NRA with money in the US. Honestly I'd rather that I'd just stayed with the Greencard and never taken US citizenship now that I am planning to live in the UK,
Another factor for those of us with family in the US is if there is a risk of legislation being passed that would bar renouncers from subsequently entering the US.
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Old May 19th 2012, 1:10 pm
  #26  
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Default Re: Saverin expatriation.

Originally Posted by nun View Post
Yes I could. But I have many years of SS payments and my retirement money is all in US based funds and keeping US citizenship is a way to protect myself against the sort of stuff that Schumer is proposing. As an NRA with money in the US you leave yourself at the mercy of some pretty veinal politicians. The way the legislation is right now my life would be simpler if I were to give up US-citizenship after I moved back to the UK because as only a UK citizen resident in the UK my US SS and income from US based retirement accounts wouldn't be US taxable. My taxes would probably not be much different because of the tax rates in the UK, but the paperwork burden would be a lot less. But I'll probably deal with the paperwork and the inconvenience as being a US expat abroad is probably safer than being an ex US citizen NRA with money in the US. Honestly I'd rather that I'd just stayed with the Greencard and never taken US citizenship now that I am planning to live in the UK,

This is interesting. I thought being a Green Card holder meant you had the same fiscal responsibilities as a USC and the so called exit tax applied as well. Please can you explain the benefits of just keeping the Green Card over becoming a USC.
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Old May 19th 2012, 1:39 pm
  #27  
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Default Re: Saverin expatriation.

Originally Posted by digbydog View Post
This is interesting. I thought being a Green Card holder meant you had the same fiscal responsibilities as a USC and the so called exit tax applied as well. Please can you explain the benefits of just keeping the Green Card over becoming a USC.
You are right. You must fill out the same 8854 expatriation and potentially pay the same expatriation tax whether you are giving up US citizenship or LPR. In the latter case you obviously don't have to go through the renouncing stuff at a US consulate and the Schumer legislation seems to be aimed at ex-US citizens rather than ex Greencard holders. If this goes any further it will be interesting to see how LPRs who choose to leave the US are treated.

The more I think of this the more I see the US reaction to expatriations as analogous to the way East Germany stopped their citizens from leaving the country: East Germany used a physical wall, the US uses tax law.

Last edited by nun; May 19th 2012 at 1:43 pm.
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Old May 19th 2012, 1:54 pm
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Default Re: Saverin expatriation.

Originally Posted by nun View Post
East Germany used a physical wall, the US uses tax law.
Precisely!
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Old May 19th 2012, 1:58 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: Saverin expatriation.

I'm a bit confused about something in this Saverin case. I was under the impression that tax law already imposes a 30% tax on capital gains connected with US based businesses paid to NRAs unless that is reduced by some tax treaty. I don't think the US has a tax treaty with Singapore so how is Saverin so much better off from a tax situation? He had to mark-to-market the gain on his Facebook shares when the expatriated and pay 15% CGT and won't he now have to pay 30% on any additional gains? or does he just have to pay the gains on the price as of his expatriation date? If so that's a massive loophole. Of course if Facebook shares go down below the mark to market price I assume he'd be worse off form a tax perspective.

Last edited by nun; May 19th 2012 at 2:55 pm.
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Old May 19th 2012, 5:34 pm
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Default Re: Saverin expatriation.

I understand that Saverin has already stated he will pay his full US tax obligations, and did so some days ago...
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