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Retirement - US Soc Sec, UK Nat Ins, and the Totalization Agreement

Retirement - US Soc Sec, UK Nat Ins, and the Totalization Agreement

Old Dec 31st 2010, 5:23 pm
  #61  
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Default Re: Retirement - US Soc Sec, UK Nat Ins, and the Totalization Agreement

Originally Posted by dunroving View Post
Are you sure? The state pension site indicates that you have to have the minimum number of qualifying years of NI payments ...

If a person of retirement age were destitute, I imagine they would be eligible for welfare benefits, but I can't find anything on the state pension site that indicates they would receive a state pension.

In Windsong's case, she will be coming back with an income, so this wouldn't apply anyway, but I'm surprised by what you say.

What I am thinking is I could delay receiving my company pension until I am 65. By that time, it will be $850 a month which I think is about 550 pounds on average. If I were to pay 5-10 years into NI as well, the company pension and the UK pension would be more than what I would receive if I had working in the UK all these years.

I can continue to have my US SS paid at 62 when in the UK and also work for three years in the UK. I would hope to bank half my salary until I retire at 65. Then at 65, I would receive the UK pension and my US company pension. So from 65 onwards I would have a total of $2400 (US SS plus company pension) plus the small UK pension.

How I would love to use that 50% banked salary as a downpayment on a small home but I doubt that at 65 I would be able to get a mortgage even if future monthly income affords it.

Gosh, this is a headache trying to sort all this out lol!
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Old Dec 31st 2010, 5:29 pm
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Default Re: Retirement - US Soc Sec, UK Nat Ins, and the Totalization Agreement

Originally Posted by windsong View Post
What I am thinking is I could delay receiving my company pension until I am 65. By that time, it will be $850 a month which I think is about 550 pounds on average. If I were to pay 5-10 years into NI as well, the company pension and the UK pension would be more than what I would receive if I had working in the UK all these years.

I can continue to have my US SS paid at 62 when in the UK and also work for three years in the UK. I would hope to bank half my salary until I retire at 65. Then at 65, I would receive the UK pension and my US company pension. So from 65 onwards I would have a total of $2400 (US SS plus company pension) plus the small UK pension.

How I would love to use that 50% banked salary as a downpayment on a small home but I doubt that at 65 I would be able to get a mortgage even if future monthly income affords it.

Gosh, this is a headache trying to sort all this out lol!

It's possible, but highly improbable, especially in the UK. If you did, I'm sure it would a) have to be for a very low loan-to-value (i.e., you'd have to be able to buy most of the house cost in cash), b) be a short-term loan, and c) be for a relatively small amount.
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Old Dec 31st 2010, 5:32 pm
  #63  
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Default Re: Retirement - US Soc Sec, UK Nat Ins, and the Totalization Agreement

Originally Posted by Sally Redux View Post
It's so hard to know - that's why I'm subscribed to this thread!

Do you already have any years, and do you have any other occupational pensions? My understanding, which could well be wrong, is that if you have nothing, you will receive the 'minimum income guarantee' amount. This puts everyone on the same minimum.
Sally, yes, I will have an income.

I am 58 now. I am planning to go back at age 62 because at that point I can begin to receive US SS of $1578 a month. This will be my security blanket over there as I have no relatives in the UK. I can also choose at that time to receive my company pension of $630 a month. I also plan to work in the UK until I am 65, so long as I can find a good job, similar to what I have in the US now.

I am thinking of delaying receiving my company pension until age 65 at which point it will be $850 a month. If I also pay in 5-10 years to the UK NI so I will get a small UK pension.

My goal here is to have as much income secured that is not touchable by the U.S. authorities. I do not trust what is going to happen to social security. Based on what I see happening in this country now that I would never have dreamed of seeing 15 years ago, who knows what could happen. Say the worst happens and SS is wiped out all together, I would still have my company pension of $850 a month (about 500 pounds I think) plus the small UK pension. The company pension and UK pension together are not much at all but it's still more than what the average OAP receives in Britain. Of course, it wouldn't even cover rent or a house payment but it is still something to fall back on if the worst happens.

I can't be stranded in the UK with only US SS income. I don't trust it.

Who knows, the US may decide to stop paying SS to people who are not living in the US, I don't know. More chance of that happening if they renounce their citizenship, I think. I would love to renounce it but I probably better not so as to protect the SS.

This is like trying to navigate a jungle.

Last edited by windsong; Dec 31st 2010 at 5:36 pm.
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Old Dec 31st 2010, 5:37 pm
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Default Re: Retirement - US Soc Sec, UK Nat Ins, and the Totalization Agreement

Originally Posted by windsong View Post
Sally, yes, I will have an income.

I am 58 now. I am planning to go back at age 62 because at that point I can begin to receive US SS of $1578 a month. This will be my security blanket over there as I have no relatives in the UK. I can also choose at that time to receive my company pension of $630 a month. I also plan to work in the UK until I am 65, so long as I can find a good job, similar to what I have in the US now.

I am thinking of delaying receiving my company pension until age 65 at which point it will be $850 a month. If I also pay in 5-10 years to the UK NI so I will get a small UK pension.

My goal here is to have as much income secured that is not touchable by the U.S. authorities. I do not trust what is going to happen to social security. Based on what I see happening in this country now that I would never have dreamed of seeing 15 years ago, who knows what could happen. Say the worst happens and SS is wiped out all together, I would still have my company pension of $850 a month (about 500 pounds I think) plus the small UK pension. The company pension and UK pension together are not much at all but it's still more than what the average OAP receives in Britain. Of course, it wouldn't even cover rent or a house payment but it is still something to fall back on if the worst happens.

I can't be stranded in the UK with only US SS income. I don't trust it.

Who knows, the US may decide to stop paying SS to people who are not living in the US, I don't know. More chance of that happening if they renounce their citizenship, I think. I would love to renounce it but I probably better not so as to protect the SS.

This is like trying to navigate a jungle.
Hopefully you will not end up in that situation, but at least if it did, you can rely on the UK providing a minimum income as per Sally's previous information.
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Old Dec 31st 2010, 5:44 pm
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Default Re: Retirement - US Soc Sec, UK Nat Ins, and the Totalization Agreement

Originally Posted by dunroving View Post
Hopefully you will not end up in that situation, but at least if it did, you can rely on the UK providing a minimum income as per Sally's previous information.
I did read about that somewhere. Do you know how much it is?

I am just trying to protect myself ALL ways because I have no one to turn to over there.

Footnote: Okay, I see it is full state pension which is 5100 pounds, I believe you said. I would already be receiving US company pension which is more than that so I doubt I would get anything other than the small UK pension (after paying in a few years of NI)

Tell me, how do people live on 5100 pounds a year if they have a mortgage/rent to pay? I assume they don't pay tax on it because it is below the personal exemption, I believe.

Last edited by windsong; Dec 31st 2010 at 5:49 pm.
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Old Dec 31st 2010, 5:50 pm
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Default Re: Retirement - US Soc Sec, UK Nat Ins, and the Totalization Agreement

Originally Posted by dunroving View Post
Hopefully you will not end up in that situation, but at least if it did, you can rely on the UK providing a minimum income as per Sally's previous information.
The only thing I am not too sure about is whether you can just buy odd years and get a straight percentage of the pension. Looking at the Citizens' Advice Bureau site, it seems that there may be a minimum amount and that the rules are complicated and advice should be sought. I think it is intended to fill in gaps in one's record.

Edit: adding this site as it seems to have something on the minimum number of years http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTax...ngup/DG_190077

Windsong, although no-one can foresee the future, I doubt SS would just be stopped overnight, so I think you will be fine. Best of luck with your move.

Last edited by Sally Redux; Dec 31st 2010 at 6:01 pm.
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Old Dec 31st 2010, 5:59 pm
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Default Re: Retirement - US Soc Sec, UK Nat Ins, and the Totalization Agreement

Originally Posted by Sally Redux View Post
The only thing I am not too sure about is whether you can just buy odd years and get a straight percentage of the pension. Looking at the Citizens' Advice Bureau site, it seems that there may be a minimum amount and that the rules are complicated and advice should be sought. I think it is intended to fill in gaps in one's record.

Windsong, although no-one can foresee the future, I doubt SS would just be stopped overnight, so I think you will be fine. Best of luck with your move.
Thanks, Sally.

I don't think they would stop it "overnight" either but, even so, the result is the same I just want to be prepared for the very, very worst. I have had enough worry living in the USA this last 10 years. the previous 20 years, I had an excellent job so it didn't matter.
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Old Dec 31st 2010, 10:41 pm
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Default Re: Retirement - US Soc Sec, UK Nat Ins, and the Totalization Agreement

Dunrovin, I honestly don't know about registering as self-employed if you work for someone else also. Sorry. I just checked into my specific situation.

Re: catching up with pension payments in the UK - isn't the new government considering scrapping all the calculations and just giving everyone the same amount no matter how much they have paid in? Or did I just imagine that?
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Old Dec 31st 2010, 11:46 pm
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Default Re: Retirement - US Soc Sec, UK Nat Ins, and the Totalization Agreement

Originally Posted by sallysimmons View Post
Dunrovin, I honestly don't know about registering as self-employed if you work for someone else also. Sorry. I just checked into my specific situation.

Re: catching up with pension payments in the UK - isn't the new government considering scrapping all the calculations and just giving everyone the same amount no matter how much they have paid in? Or did I just imagine that?
I read that too I think it was on the BBC maybe it was just an Idea. They figured it would be cheaper than having to have all those people calculate and administer all kinds of benefits.
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Old Jan 1st 2011, 12:01 am
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Default Re: Retirement - US Soc Sec, UK Nat Ins, and the Totalization Agreement

Originally Posted by sallysimmons View Post
Dunrovin, I honestly don't know about registering as self-employed if you work for someone else also. Sorry. I just checked into my specific situation.

Re: catching up with pension payments in the UK - isn't the new government considering scrapping all the calculations and just giving everyone the same amount no matter how much they have paid in? Or did I just imagine that?
Oh wow now you mention it I'm sure that was mooted. That could make a big difference.
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Old Jan 1st 2011, 1:01 am
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Default Re: Retirement - US Soc Sec, UK Nat Ins, and the Totalization Agreement

Originally Posted by Sally Redux View Post
Oh wow now you mention it I'm sure that was mooted. That could make a big difference.
What does mooted mean? Scrapped?
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Old Jan 1st 2011, 8:18 am
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Default Re: Retirement - US Soc Sec, UK Nat Ins, and the Totalization Agreement

Originally Posted by windsong View Post
What does mooted mean? Scrapped?
mooted = suggested, or proposed.
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Old Jan 1st 2011, 1:45 pm
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Default Re: Retirement - US Soc Sec, UK Nat Ins, and the Totalization Agreement

Originally Posted by rebs View Post
mooted = suggested, or proposed.
Thank you
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Old Jan 2nd 2011, 12:33 pm
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Default Re: Retirement - US Soc Sec, UK Nat Ins, and the Totalization Agreement

I haven't read through the whole thread therefore I don't know if this has been discussed. You will not receive the full pension from both countries...one will be deducted from the other.

Rete posted about this a while ago. Her husband is a dual Canadian and USC...when he retired and made a claim the US deducted his Canadian pension from his US pension...he only received the difference.
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Old Jan 2nd 2011, 12:43 pm
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Default Re: Retirement - US Soc Sec, UK Nat Ins, and the Totalization Agreement

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
I haven't read through the whole thread therefore I don't know if this has been discussed. You will not receive the full pension from both countries...one will be deducted from the other.

Rete posted about this a while ago. Her husband is a dual Canadian and USC...when he retired and made a claim the US deducted his Canadian pension from his US pension...he only received the difference.
From some of the posts, it seems the exception is if someone has paid 30 years of US SS .... and even if not, the deduction will not be the full amount, but 50%.

It's all very complicated, and no doubt will change anyway, when the US and UK economies go to Hell in a handbasket.
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