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Reporting distributions in UK PFICs

Reporting distributions in UK PFICs

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Old Mar 9th 2016, 11:38 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Reporting distributions in UK PFICs

Originally Posted by uncletravlingphil
My funds are not in a SIPP, ISA or anything else.
How long have you owned the funds? How long have you been a US person?
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Old Mar 9th 2016, 11:48 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: Reporting distributions in UK PFICs

Originally Posted by uncletravlingphil
I've heard of mark-to-market but don't fully understand what that means.
To give you some info to work with. A PFIC is a passive foreign investment company. It's a foreign company that derives much of it's income from passive investments (stocks, bonds etc) or has significant holdings in passive investments. This is a trick to capture foreign mutual funds since the funds themselves are small companies. You see terms like ICVC etc.

The US wants to punish you for having these because they were not originally subject to american rules to force income to be realized. In the 80's America was behind the rest of the world in tax deferral.
America has moved on but the PFIC rules remain.
A PFIC can be taxed in three ways.
QEF - Means treat this fund as if it's an American fund. Has to be made when you buy the fund or become a US person otherwise you end up looking like you sold the fund. You can't do it retroactively. You need the fund to have reported lots of stuff to America. Unlikely you can do this.
M2M - Mark to market. You pay income tax on the gains of the fund year on year. You have to elect this and you get the same problems as QEF. You can't do it retroactively.
The default when you don't elect is sec 1291. A mindbogglingly complex system where your gains are spread over the years you owned the fund and you pay the highest marginal tax rate anyone could pay plus interest compounded daily for each day to the present day. I have had to do this stuff because my wife had PFICs.
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Old Mar 10th 2016, 2:27 am
  #18  
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Default Re: Reporting distributions in UK PFICs

Originally Posted by Neillc37
In order to avoid sec 1291 he would need to make this election when he first purchased the funds or when he became a US person. Retroactive elections are not allowed.
If for example he elected mark to market now after having held the shares as a US person for many years he would trigger sec 1291 taxes as if he sold right?
It may essentially be too late to elect in a manner that doesn't cost and arm and a leg.
Currently you can stop being a US person and take your PFICs with you. Temp regs though have the US trying to impose a deemed sale on the assets when you leave. So they really want to ding you all ways.
The OP says that he has an advisor who is filing the PFIC forms. The advisor may have claimed M2M treatment, if so the gain in any value throughout the year will be taxed at the marginal income tax rate. To understand how the PFIC will be taxed we need to know if it's QEF, M2M or the full sec 1291 treatment. I expect it will be M2M.
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Old Mar 10th 2016, 2:28 am
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Default Re: Reporting distributions in UK PFICs

Originally Posted by Cook_County
I doubt one could do M2M within a SIPP as the funds are unlikely to be publicly traded on a recognized stock exchange; but you'd have to check.
The trouble with a SIPP is the annual 3520-A and 3520 reporting; if it owns PFICs, the reporting is indeed even worse.
That's if you feel that SIPPs are not pensions for DTA purposes or you don't claim the treaty exemption.
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