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-   -   Renouncing British citizenship (https://britishexpats.com/forum/usa-57/renouncing-british-citizenship-708342/)

pineapple2oo9 Mar 7th 2011 7:24 pm

Renouncing British citizenship
 
I'm a naturalized American citizen trying to apply for security clearance in the US. I was told by my SGT that the naturalization process does not automatically renounce British citizenship and my security clearance is being blocked because I have it. (I am taking what she says with a pinch of salt as she is not 100%). I would hate to have to renounce my citizenship but it is imperative for my career that I obtain a clearance.

Anyway, is there anyone out there that can verify it's true? I also tried calling my nearest consulate (Atlanta ph:404 954 7700) and no matter what option I press it ends up in an annoying automated message and never allows you to speak to somebody. Does anyone have an alternative number?
I'd just go down there if it didn't mean a 7 hour round trip and a day booked off work ;/

Thanks in advance

Ash UK/US Mar 7th 2011 7:33 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 
I have never heard of that happening before. Did you enter the US on your UK passport after you became a citizen?

meauxna Mar 7th 2011 7:35 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 
Start with this thread.. http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=663668
There have been several discussions on this topic and some are linked in there.
If you get done with that, you can google
secret clearance site:britishexpats.com for more. :)

Duncan Roberts Mar 7th 2011 7:55 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 
The naturalization doesn't renounce your UK citizenship, there are forms to fill in, fees to pay and people to see at the UK embassy for that. As to your UK citizenship blocking your US security clearance, I guess you would have to talk to the people processing it to find out for sure.

Michael Mar 7th 2011 8:04 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 
http://www.clearancejobs.com/cleared...ity-clearances

Guideline C does not specifically indicate that the mere existence of dual citizenship is a potentially disqualifying condition. It uses the words “exercise” and “acts,” indicating there must be conduct that demonstrates a preference for a foreign country. However, Guideline C lists mitigating conditions for dual citizenship unrelated to conduct, thereby implying that dual citizenship by itself is a potential security concern. Merely having dual citizenship will not automatically result in a security clearance denial, nor will simply renouncing foreign citizenship necessarily result in a security clearance approval. Generally people who acquired dual citizenship at birth and have done nothing to obtain recognition of the foreign citizenship will encounter little or no problem in obtaining a clearance unless there are other security issues in their case.

There are many people in the government with the highest security clearance that have dual citizenship (especially in the executive branch).

Bob Mar 7th 2011 8:12 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 
Thing is, even renouncing UK citizenship might not do any good if still have ties to the UK such as friends/family/property etc.

pineapple2oo9 Mar 7th 2011 11:18 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 
Thanks for all the information and links to threads. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information out there.
Has anyone ever successfully managed to get hold of the Atlanta office? I'm quite certain there's no actual people there, just large automated answering services :mad:

md95065 Mar 8th 2011 12:11 am

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by pineapple2oo9 (Post 9224560)
Has anyone ever successfully managed to get hold of the Atlanta office? I'm quite certain there's no actual people there, just large automated answering services :mad:

You might want to send a private message to Dean Churm who posts on here under the name British Consul - he is in Florida but should be able to help you figure out how to get in touch with a real person who can answer your questions.

British Consul Mar 8th 2011 2:01 am

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by pineapple2oo9 (Post 9224560)
Thanks for all the information and links to threads. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information out there.
Has anyone ever successfully managed to get hold of the Atlanta office? I'm quite certain there's no actual people there, just large automated answering services :mad:

I could tell you what the answer is, but that large automated answering service also tells you where you need to look.....

But, if you're required to renounce your British nationality, then read this http://ukinusa.fco.gov.uk/en/help-fo...d/citizenship/

If you just need to return your British passport and get a letter confirming that you have done so, then follow the process here http://ukinusa.fco.gov.uk/en/help-fo...shing-passport

We can't tell you what you need to do (that's between you and Uncle Sam).

Hope this helps.

Dean

AdobePinon Mar 8th 2011 2:50 am

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 
I would advise you to get more information before proceeding if UK citizenship is important to you. Often, a request to renounce UK citizenship is triggered by an underlying reason that may not be resolved by renouncing UK citizenship.

marmaladecat1 Mar 19th 2011 4:53 am

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 
I too tried to join the military in the US (to mitigate student loan debt). I was also told that I needed to renounce my cherished UK citizenship. I read about it and learnt that I can do this once and then regain it. I did so.

However, my wife became pregnant and I lost interest in the military route. I regained my citizenship without any problems. After the ceremony I was asked if I had any questions. I asked how I could ensure my daughter could gain British citizenship. The lady quickly told me that my future children - as I had renounced my citizenship - could NOT be British citizens. I was heartbroken.

Sadly, despite having explained my story prior to the ceremony this was not mentioned... until it was too late.

JAJ Mar 19th 2011 5:15 am

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by marmaladecat1 (Post 9249662)
However, my wife became pregnant and I lost interest in the military route. I regained my citizenship without any problems. After the ceremony I was asked if I had any questions. I asked how I could ensure my daughter could gain British citizenship. The lady quickly told me that my future children - as I had renounced my citizenship - could NOT be British citizens. I was heartbroken.

All is not lost ... you can apply to the Home Office (via the Embassy) for your daughter to be registered as a British citizen. As long as she is under 18. And also assumes you were born in Britain.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/br...nupandresumed/

By the way, you weren't entitled to get your British citizenship back, as you didn't renounce it to obtain or retain another citizenship. You got it back under discretionary provisions.

alextemple Mar 19th 2011 5:20 am

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by marmaladecat1 (Post 9249662)
I too tried to join the military in the US (to mitigate student loan debt). I was also told that I needed to renounce my cherished UK citizenship. I read about it and learnt that I can do this once and then regain it. I did so.

However, my wife became pregnant and I lost interest in the military route. I regained my citizenship without any problems. After the ceremony I was asked if I had any questions. I asked how I could ensure my daughter could gain British citizenship. The lady quickly told me that my future children - as I had renounced my citizenship - could NOT be British citizens. I was heartbroken.

Sadly, despite having explained my story prior to the ceremony this was not mentioned... until it was too late.

Wow, you got screwed. I joined the US army to help me pay for college. I was actually a PR at the time and then later (after a year) took citizenship as the fee is waived if you have military service. I just checked goarmy.com and it still does not require you to be a citizen or to renounce citizenship.

tigerbob Mar 19th 2011 1:21 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by pineapple2oo9 (Post 9224068)
I'm a naturalized American citizen trying to apply for security clearance in the US. I was told by my SGT that the naturalization process does not automatically renounce British citizenship and my security clearance is being blocked because I have it. (I am taking what she says with a pinch of salt as she is not 100%). I would hate to have to renounce my citizenship but it is imperative for my career that I obtain a clearance.

Anyway, is there anyone out there that can verify it's true? I also tried calling my nearest consulate (Atlanta ph:404 954 7700) and no matter what option I press it ends up in an annoying automated message and never allows you to speak to somebody. Does anyone have an alternative number?
I'd just go down there if it didn't mean a 7 hour round trip and a day booked off work ;/

Thanks in advance

Try calling the USCIS. They should certainly know what the deal is on this, and when I've called them I've always managed to get human rather than machine response. 1 800 375 5283.

JAJ Mar 19th 2011 2:38 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by tigerbob (Post 9250155)
Try calling the USCIS. They should certainly know what the deal is on this, and when I've called them I've always managed to get human rather than machine response. 1 800 375 5283.

They will NOT "know the deal" on this.

nun Mar 20th 2011 2:00 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by pineapple2oo9 (Post 9224068)
I'm a naturalized American citizen trying to apply for security clearance in the US. I was told by my SGT that the naturalization process does not automatically renounce British citizenship and my security clearance is being blocked because I have it. (I am taking what she says with a pinch of salt as she is not 100%). I would hate to have to renounce my citizenship but it is imperative for my career that I obtain a clearance.

You need to be talking to your security officer, not the UK consulate. The fact that you say you would hate to give up UK citizenship is a strike against you in getting a US security clearance, so never say that to a US official. It would show a "foreign preference" and that's a critical factor.

The US does not require you to renounce other citizenships to get a clearance, but you will probably have to return your passport to the UK consulate or give your passport to your security officer. You may also be asked to deface the passport.

The US wants to make sure you have no foreign preference or substantial ties to a foreign country. Things that would be bad are: 1) having foreign family; 2) money in foreign countries, houses or making social security payments to a foreign country; 3) using your foreign passport.

You will probably be asked if you would be willing to renounce your UK citizenship in the interview, but you won't be required to do it. I went through this a year ago and as my UK citizenship is more important to me than my US citizenship I decided not to pursue the job offer I had as I would have had to lie to get the clearance.

tigerbob Mar 20th 2011 2:53 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by JAJ (Post 9250256)
They will NOT "know the deal" on this.

Oh. Well, sorry for misleading everyone.

yadcleland Oct 23rd 2011 4:37 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 
I have recently gone through this process. If you are a Canadian or British citizen, you are not required to renounce your citizenship. Those are the only current exceptions. This may change and you may have to renounce in the future, but you are safe for now.

fatbrit Oct 23rd 2011 4:50 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by yadcleland (Post 9691189)
I have recently gone through this process. If you are a Canadian or British citizen, you are not required to renounce your citizenship. Those are the only current exceptions. This may change and you may have to renounce in the future, but you are safe for now.

What have you been smoking?

ian-mstm Oct 23rd 2011 4:55 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by yadcleland (Post 9691189)
I have recently gone through this process.

Which process? Needing to renounce your non-US citizenship in order to gain a US security clearance?



If you are a Canadian or British citizen, you are not required to renounce your citizenship.
That's great... well, unless the job or security clearance requires it.

Ian

nun Oct 23rd 2011 7:29 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by yadcleland (Post 9691189)
I have recently gone through this process. If you are a Canadian or British citizen, you are not required to renounce your citizenship. Those are the only current exceptions. This may change and you may have to renounce in the future, but you are safe for now.

Do you mean getting a US Security Clearance. If so there is no requirement to renounce any foreign citizenship. However, you must not show a foreign preference like holding and using a foreign passport. So did you give uo your foreign passport?

Phillygal Oct 30th 2011 6:16 am

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 
My Daughter was a dual UK/US citizen and she held a UK passport as a child. She joined the USAF in 2004 and during basic training she had to submit a letter to the UK Consulate in Washington DC stating that she wished to relinquish her UK Passport as she was a US Citizen. Even though she did this it still took three years for her to be granted a Secret Clearance and this is the highest clearance she will ever hold as she held a UK Passport.

My Son on the other hand never held a UK passport only a US passport, he also Joined the USAF in 2004 and he received his clearance within 6 months and will never be restricted on what clearance he can hold. Neither of my children had to physically renounce their UK citizenship although of course there Allegiance is to the USA.

nun Oct 30th 2011 1:19 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by Phillygal (Post 9704008)
My Daughter was a dual UK/US citizen and she held a UK passport as a child. She joined the USAF in 2004 and during basic training she had to submit a letter to the UK Consulate in Washington DC stating that she wished to relinquish her UK Passport as she was a US Citizen. Even though she did this it still took three years for her to be granted a Secret Clearance and this is the highest clearance she will ever hold as she held a UK Passport.

My Son on the other hand never held a UK passport only a US passport, he also Joined the USAF in 2004 and he received his clearance within 6 months and will never be restricted on what clearance he can hold. Neither of my children had to physically renounce their UK citizenship although of course there Allegiance is to the USA.

This sounds right. I'm dual US/UK and never went for the security clearance as I didn't want to give up my UK passport. I tend to travel on my UK passport, I have family in the UK and have been paying voluntary UK national insurance for the past 25 years so all those would go against me.

ian-mstm Oct 30th 2011 2:51 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by Phillygal (Post 9704008)
My Daughter was a dual UK/US citizen and she held a UK passport as a child ...

My Son on the other hand never held a UK passport only a US passport...

Isn't your son also a dual UK/US citizen? Since a passport is only proof of the status and not the status itself, are you saying the only difference between the two is that your daughter had the PPT and your son didn't? How odd!

Ian

washsaint Oct 30th 2011 6:39 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 
This all sounds a bit confusing.....I have a good friend who is a dual-national Australian-US.

He moved to the US when he was around 25 and holds a US Top Secret clearance....he has not had to renounce his Australian citizenship but had to give up his Australian passport.

He still has large amounts of family in Australia.

nun Oct 30th 2011 6:54 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by washsaint (Post 9704971)
This all sounds a bit confusing.....I have a good friend who is a dual-national Australian-US.

He moved to the US when he was around 25 and holds a US Top Secret clearance....he has not had to renounce his Australian citizenship but had to give up his Australian passport.

He still has large amounts of family in Australia.

Having a foreign citizenship is NOT the issue when getting a security clearance, it's showing a preference for that foreign country over the US. Each case will be different, but things that will go against getting a clearance are:

having and using a foreign passport;
having closer family ties in a foreign country than in the US;
having bank accounts abroad or getting payments from a foreign country.

I think a good question would be to ask which country you support in sporting events.

As your friend gave up his AUS passport that shows that he has a clear preference for the US. If he has family and friends in Australia the case worker will ask questions about that and apply common sense. If they are his mum, dad etc that's no problem. However, if he was married to an Australian citizen and they had children and chose to live in the Australia rather than trying to move to US that might be problematic.

Phillygal Oct 30th 2011 8:08 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by ian-mstm (Post 9704657)
Isn't your son also a dual UK/US citizen? Since a passport is only proof of the status and not the status itself, are you saying the only difference between the two is that your daughter had the PPT and your son didn't? How odd!

Ian

Exactly Ian-Mstm... I found it rather odd too.. My Son had to submit the same letter in basic training as well claiming US over UK citizenship but of course had no passport to submit, he was however included on my UK passport when you where able to do that. I honestly think it is handled on a case by case basis and they decide as they go along. Weird thing is I am their Mother and. when this was all happening I was working on an RAF/USAF occupied base in the the UK and was employed by the Ministry of Defense.. Go figure :confused:

scrubbedexpat099 Oct 30th 2011 9:42 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

she had to submit a letter to the UK Consulate in Washington DC stating that she wished to relinquish her UK Passport as she was a US Citizen
There is usually a meaningless solution.

nun Oct 30th 2011 11:49 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by Phillygal (Post 9705084)
Exactly Ian-Mstm... I found it rather odd too.. My Son had to submit the same letter in basic training as well claiming US over UK citizenship but of course had no passport to submit, he was however included on my UK passport when you where able to do that. I honestly think it is handled on a case by case basis and they decide as they go along. Weird thing is I am their Mother and. when this was all happening I was working on an RAF/USAF occupied base in the the UK and was employed by the Ministry of Defense.. Go figure :confused:

Each case is different. However, status ie being a UK citizen is not the major factor, it's the preference for the UK over the US. By holding a UK passport your daughter was showing a preference for the UK. The security folks think of it like this "why does she need a UK passport, she has a US one....getting the UK passport is not necessary so why did she do it?". It sounds a bit stupid when it's the UK, but security people are trained to look at thinks from what might seem like a perverse angle. Your son's not having a UK passport even though he qualified for one just proved what a good loyal American he is and so he sailed through.

Also joining the US military is very different from working for the UK military or MOD in collaboration with the US armed forces. In fact having a family member who is foreign and works for foreign military is generally not a good thing.

Phillygal Oct 31st 2011 12:04 am

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 
[QUOTE=nun;9705351]Each case is different. However, status ie being a UK citizen is not the major factor, it's the preference for the UK over the US. By holding a UK passport your daughter was showing a preference for the UK. The security folks think of it like this "why does she need a UK passport, she has a US one....getting the UK passport is not necessary so why did she do it?".

She lived a majority of her life in the UK so having a UK passport alleviated all the hassle when they bought the UK visa into effect, travelling on her US passport became harder and harder so we opted to get her a UK one, not knowing at that time that she would chose the US military for a career.

scrubbedexpat099 Oct 31st 2011 12:21 am

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 
[QUOTE=Phillygal;9705367]

Originally Posted by nun (Post 9705351)
Each case is different. However, status ie being a UK citizen is not the major factor, it's the preference for the UK over the US. By holding a UK passport your daughter was showing a preference for the UK. The security folks think of it like this "why does she need a UK passport, she has a US one....getting the UK passport is not necessary so why did she do it?".

She lived a majority of her life in the UK so having a UK passport alleviated all the hassle when they bought the UK visa into effect, travelling on her US passport became harder and harder so we opted to get her a UK one, not knowing at that time that she would chose the US military for a career.

She wrote the letter.

Presumably she still has the Passport anyway, if not just apply for another one.

Cost varies between that of a stamp and a passport application, much better than trying to argue with idiots and not winning.

nun Oct 31st 2011 3:00 am

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by Phillygal (Post 9705367)

She lived a majority of her life in the UK so having a UK passport alleviated all the hassle when they bought the UK visa into effect, travelling on her US passport became harder and harder so we opted to get her a UK one, not knowing at that time that she would chose the US military for a career.

Yes what seem like innocent enough choices can have consequences later on. My US career path took me in a direction where to further advance I had to get a security clearance. But I didn't want to give up my UK passport so I chose to change careers.

lolly Nov 1st 2011 3:13 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 
My Son wa born in the UK had both UK/US passports
Joined the Army as an Officer has a top secret clearance - he was asked if he had a passport from any other country said no and that was the end of it.
They were more interested in the fact that I was not a citizen - but he still got his clearance in 6 months.

scrubbedexpat099 Nov 1st 2011 3:41 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 
Presumably he did not have one when asked?

Or he did not have it on him?

nun Nov 1st 2011 4:06 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by Boiler (Post 9708503)
Presumably he did not have one when asked?

Or he did not have it on him?

I assume he didn't have a UK passport as lying in the process of obtaining a clearance is a serious federal crime, it says so on the forms. If he did have a UK passport it would be a good idea to "loose it" and he should definitely NEVER use it or apply for a new one. Also maybe this post should not be replied to by anyone who knows the soldier with the clearance as it's never good to put stuff in writing, you don't know who may be reading it!

lolly Nov 1st 2011 7:19 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 
His UK passport had just expired.
But at anytime he can apply for another one.
But my point is that not at any time was he asked to sign anything saying he would give up his UK citizenship.

scrubbedexpat099 Nov 1st 2011 9:10 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 
Remember the old adage when it comes to Immigration issues.

Do you know the time is a yes or no question.

Stupid questions only need to be answered as asked, no need to go any further.

nun Nov 1st 2011 10:01 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by lolly (Post 9708948)
His UK passport had just expired.
But at anytime he can apply for another one.
But my point is that not at any time was he asked to sign anything saying he would give up his UK citizenship.

If he wants to keep the US clearance he cannot get a UK passport. At any reviews he must not show a preference for the UK so he must be able to answer truthfully that he doesn't have a UK passport.

Having UK citizenship is not an issue when it comes getting a US clearance. The issue is showing a preference for the UK over the US. If the clearance lapses and he then gets a UK passport that would look very bad if he ever wanted to reactivate it.

ian-mstm Nov 1st 2011 10:20 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by lolly (Post 9708948)
His UK passport had just expired.

Unless the officer asked if he had an unexpired passport from any other country... then your son lied, and when he gets caught he'll be in deep shit. The two questions aren't the same... and an expired passport is still valid proof of citizenship.

Ian

nun Nov 1st 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Renouncing British citizenship
 

Originally Posted by ian-mstm (Post 9709318)
Unless the officer asked if he had an unexpired passport from any other country... then your son lied, and when he gets caught he'll be in deep shit. The two questions aren't the same... and an expired passport is still valid proof of citizenship.

Ian

You are missing the point slightly. The security officer obviously knew about the applicants citizenship and that of his mother. If he had a UK passport he would have been asked to hand it in to a UK consulate or give it to the security officer so be couldn't use it. As bs didnd have a valid UK passport the applicant answered appropriately.


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