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Removal of child from jurisdiction UK to US

Removal of child from jurisdiction UK to US

Old Aug 23rd 2014, 11:48 pm
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Default Removal of child from jurisdiction UK to US

I have had a few replies on my other thread regarding this, but the thread was regarding another matter, so I thought I'd make a fresh thread but I'm not sure if I'm writing in the correct bit, but here goes. (ADMIN-PLEASE MOVE IF SO)

As the title says, I'm wanting to emigrate from the UK to the US permanently (to be with my partner) with my six month old daughter, but I have a PSO against me. I'm seeking anyone that has gone through this and been successful. Here are my key points in my favor;


1) I am not doing this to be malicious against my ex partner and it is not a ploy to remove my ex partner from my child's life. It is simply for my own happiness, my daughters happiness and I believe my daughter will have a better upbringing in the US.

2) I am in no means wanting to stop my ex partner and daughter having a relationship, I can offer for my ex partner to come out and visit, and I'll provide accommodation. Also, Skype, letters, photos, etc. Also, I will be travelling back to the UK regularly, where my ex partner can have contact and also overnight stays until we go back. (Twice a year I'd probably be flying back)

3) I have researched plans out in the US already and have decided which daycare centre she will be going to, I'm visiting it next month also. The schools, I can also get information on.

4) My partner has just started renting out a property for us in the US, and will be setting up home for all three of us, it is two bedroom so my daughter will have her own room. This is also close to the daycare centre, and I have pictures of the house, and I am also seeing this next month when I visit.

5) I am in a serious relationship with my new partner, I can show detailed conversations, letters and photos. Also, flight tickets, and receipts for gifts. (She has a good stable job too)

6) My child’s happiness is greatly influenced by the happiness of her principal carer (me). I feel Making me stay in a country where I no longer want to live in could cause unhappiness, isolation and depression.


7) With my daughter being only six months, I feel the impact of emigrating will be low, with her being so young.

8) My ex partner has refused to pay for any child things I refuse, does not pay maintenance (says I earn more than enough!)



Please let me know your honest opinions, and please, no judgement. If I've missed anything out, please let me know I'm sure I have!)

Apologies, admin if I've posted this in the wrong place.
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Old Aug 24th 2014, 12:07 am
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Default Re: Removal of child from jurisdiction UK to US

Originally Posted by SophieDoyle View Post
I'm seeking anyone that has gone through this and been successful. Here are my key points in my favor;
This is really a matter between you and the UK court. You should hire a family attorney in the UK who can help you build a good case. It will be up to the court whether you will be allowed to remove the child from the UK or not, absent the child's father's permission.

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Old Aug 24th 2014, 12:18 am
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Default Re: Removal of child from jurisdiction UK to US

Originally Posted by SophieDoyle View Post
I believe my daughter will have a better upbringing in the US.
In what way? Please be specific. This, by the way, is rhetorical... but you'd better have a good answer prepared when the judge asks the same question.


I am in no means wanting to stop my ex partner and daughter having a relationship...
I'm sure you don't want to... but unless the frequency and duration of visits is similar to what is happening right now, the resulting collateral damage will put your ex in a worse situation whether you want it or not, and whether you intend it or not.


I will be travelling back to the UK regularly, where my ex partner can have contact and also overnight stays until we go back.
Will you also allow your ex to take her daughter overnight when she's visiting you in the US?


I am in a serious relationship with my new partner...
Were you not also in a serious relationship with your ex?


My child’s happiness is greatly influenced by the happiness of her principal carer (me). I feel Making me stay in a country where I no longer want to live in could cause unhappiness, isolation and depression.
Ah... now we come to the crux of the issue. You're suggesting that your daughter will be happy because you'll be happy. You might be on to something there.


With my daughter being only six months, I feel the impact of emigrating will be low, with her being so young.
Ah - so she'll hardly even notice that your ex isn't around as often. That's probably better for you than it is for her, don't you think?


My ex partner has refused to pay for any child things I refuse, does not pay maintenance (says I earn more than enough!)
Good! Be prepared to prove this in court! That might influence the judge's decision.

Keep in mind that you will be asked difficult questions when you go to court. If you avoid the hard questions now, you'll have a really lousy time trying to explain it to a judge when you're already anxious. And, if your ex hires an attorney to help her rip you to shreds, that's what's going to happen.

Please understand that none of us want to be harsh, but this is the reality of the situation you're about to face. I think we all want to try to prepare you for what lies ahead.

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Old Aug 24th 2014, 12:21 am
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Default Re: Removal of child from jurisdiction UK to US

What Noorah said.

You make an interesting argument, though I don't find it particularly persuasive, but then IANAL. The lack of support payments might be persuasive, or if you take it to court you might just get an offer to make support payments, so that argument might just bite you in the @rsë.
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Old Aug 24th 2014, 12:32 am
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Default Re: Removal of child from jurisdiction UK to US

Thank you to both, Noorah and Pulaski.

I can give evidence of no support payments, I have several text messages refusing. And also, people can vouch for me. I may not even bring this up, as stated I'm not doing this to be spiteful.
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Old Aug 24th 2014, 1:04 am
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Default Re: Removal of child from jurisdiction UK to US

Are you intending to marry...if so are you applying for the visa before or after you marry?
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Old Aug 24th 2014, 1:16 am
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Default Re: Removal of child from jurisdiction UK to US

Originally Posted by SophieDoyle View Post
Thank you to both, Noorah and Pulaski.

I can give evidence of no support payments, I have several text messages refusing. And also, people can vouch for me. I may not even bring this up, as stated I'm not doing this to be spiteful.
It's not a case of being spiteful. If your ex partner wants to prevent you and the child from moving to the US, you will have to use every bit of evidence you can to prove you are the principal carer and that your ex is not providing support (financial or emotional) for the child.
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Old Aug 24th 2014, 1:19 am
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Default Re: Removal of child from jurisdiction UK to US

So is the ex-partner the biological or adoptive parent of this baby? Sorry if I missed this part, I've been trying to read both threads.
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Old Aug 24th 2014, 1:26 am
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Default Re: Removal of child from jurisdiction UK to US

I think the best card you hold is that your ex isn't and apparently doesn't want to pay child support. If that is important to him, then use that as a tool to get him to agree to allow you to remove the child. If he doesn't agree, start child support proceedings for as much as you can possibly get and if he finds his money that important, he'll likely agree.

You can't seem desperate since he'll likely play that as much as possible but if he thinks he'd be better off financially having you out of the country and safe from a child custody order, he may agree.
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Old Aug 24th 2014, 1:30 am
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Default Re: Removal of child from jurisdiction UK to US

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
Are you intending to marry...if so are you applying for the visa before or after you marry?
She and her current partner are going to do a K-1 fiancé visa process.

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Old Aug 24th 2014, 1:45 am
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Default Re: Removal of child from jurisdiction UK to US

If the PSO is in place, there was obviously a decision made by the court (against the OP) to prevent a step being taken that is the nature of Parental Responsibility. I suspect the OP's ex already suspected she may just 'hop' over the pond, and preempted this by alerting the authorities.

In which case, I am not sure without getting the PSO removed, the OP has much of a case to fall back on - OP, can you clarify if the PSO was for the reason mentioned above?

She can certainly apply to the courts for Child support, but that creates another tie to the UK - potentially problematic for the visa process/adjusting once she enters the US. Minefield basically.

If the text messages are numerous enough and over a period of time, they can certainly be used as evidence, but then can also be used against you if the court finds your demands go over and above the childs necessary needs. They will certainly take into account your current income and expenses.

Last edited by hoffage123; Aug 24th 2014 at 1:51 am.
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Old Aug 24th 2014, 2:03 am
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Default Re: Removal of child from jurisdiction UK to US

Originally Posted by hoffage123 View Post
She can certainly apply to the courts for Child support, but that creates another tie to the UK - potentially problematic for the visa process/adjusting once she enters the US. Minefield basically.
I don't see where there is any issue with a visa/adjusting whether there is a child support order or not.

Without threating to sue for child support, he has all the cards and she likely can't do anything without his consent unless there is something that he is doing that would favor her to get a court order to allow her to remove the child. Her perceived happiness, livelihood, living conditions, etc. has little bearing on obtaining a court order to remove the child.
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Old Aug 24th 2014, 6:42 am
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Default Re: Removal of child from jurisdiction UK to US

You need a lawyer.

As an aside I am curious. What state does your new partner live in?
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Old Aug 24th 2014, 7:12 am
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Default Re: Removal of child from jurisdiction UK to US

Originally Posted by AmerLisa View Post
So is the ex-partner the biological or adoptive parent of this baby? Sorry if I missed this part, I've been trying to read both threads.
Hmmm, yes this. I'm not sure how this works - are you your daughter's biological mother? If so did your ex adopt her? Would that have any impact on parental responsibility etc?

OP, I really think you need a lawyer heavily involved in this, it's too complicated. From looking into this myself it appears that courts generally favour granting these orders but we don't have all the details - ask your lawyer what they think your chances of success are.

Also, have you looked into your partner moving to the UK?
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Old Aug 24th 2014, 7:32 am
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Default Re: Removal of child from jurisdiction UK to US

Originally Posted by BunnyGirl View Post
From looking into this myself it appears that courts generally favour granting these orders but we don't have all the details - ask your lawyer what they think your chances of success are.
Unless British courts are significantly different from American courts, American courts consider both parents of equal value and usually don't grant removal if one parent objects. Even moving from state to state is difficult in the US if one parent is opposed.

In fact in my case, my ex wanted to move out of the country and my lawyer said, "You can stop her moving with the kids" but I didn't want to make her life miserable just because we weren't together any more.
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