N1cky

Yikes, that's some driving around

Hope all goes well for you this week, I knew you were expecting twins, I didn't realize they were due so soon though

Nimco

Thanks all - thats a great help! I'll research that schools website and look at all the areas mentioned here as my next step.

Its pretty worrying that housing is so expensive for places that generally look so average in the ads. And, yes, I'm getting 'sticker shock'!

I wonder if the suppoed lifestyle benefits such as weekends at Yosemite, Santa Cruz and great weather will make up for all the hassle of moving, tax kerfuffle, housing issues etc, especially as we only plan to relocate for 2 to 3 years. Difficult - getting cold feet here....

My next problem is tax and investments, but I'm going to trawl the available threads first and come back to you all - thanks again...

Yorkieabroad

Just seen this part of your post.

I guess I fall in that category - I haven't had a real "job" for over 10 years. Like you, I split my time between looking after the kids and generating "alternative" streams of income.

I did this for 18 months in Singapore, 6 months in the UK, and the balance of that time in the US. I have to say the hardest of those locations (by a long chalk) was here in Texas. I suspect (hope) your experiences in California will be significantly different. Here it was tough to get into babygroups, playgroups etc. I even got an official rejection email from one of the local groups' presidents (wtf - you need a president for a playgroup) saying "we're a moms group - dads are not welcome!".

I found a lot of the moms I met in the early days could be dropped into 3 categories - 1) those who thought I was going to eat (or worse) them, or their kids, 2) those who thought I was trying to use my kids as babe magnets and 3) those who's husbands weren't comfortable with there being a man at the playgroups.

I guess the only piece of advice I have in this one is shrug it off and keep trying - I kept plugging away at the "non-member" groups that they couldn't throw me out of (such as the library) and the pay groups (such as gymboree) and eventually found a decent set of moms to knock around with who realized I was pretty harmless, and that all I was after was some mates for my boys. But it took a long time, and it was incredibly frustrating.

In the last 10 years here, I have only come across one other stay at home dad, and he was only here for about a year before he moved back to California because he didn't like the Texan attitude. There used to be a fairly active yahoo group called the stay at home dad network that had dads on from all over the country, but massively dominated by California. So I think you will do OK over there - you won't stick out like a sore thumb!

Good Luck!

dlake02

So, my honest opinion having moved here nearly 15 months ago is DON'T DO IT. What follows is my Personal Opinion:

Schooling is a big problem - get in the wrong area, and you'll be surrounded with Hispanics with all their social issues (not actually THEIR social issues - their GOVERNMENTS lack of care for their social issues).

Or be in an area full of Asians and their total obsession with education for every waking hour. That alone is not necessarily an issue, except that it KILLS everything else - there are after-school activities, but mostly taken up by the Hispanic and White kids because the Asian kids are doing Kumon or similar "brain-expanding" activities. It leads to excellent schools which we are riding on (my son's school has gone up in scores by 20% in the last year alone as more Asian kids come in and the previously dominant ethnicity has been priced out), but the flip-side is expensive houses and a broken insular society. We end up traveling 10-20 miles for soccer, cub scouts into the older areas (Cupertino, Saratoga).

Or pay Top Dollar and live in Los Gatos - good schools, average US ethnic mix but you pay for that in housing costs.

And remember, these are not the typical, highly-integrated Asians that we are used to in Britain (in Britain, I would NEVER refer to anyone by their ethnicity - here they are obsessed with race and colour). These are very highly educated, first-generation migrants, typically MSc, PhD that have a point to prove... They will sacrifice EVERYTHING just to be in America, just to have the chances that their own countries fail to give them. They are not moving for the "experience" that you and I may move for - this is survival and future opportunities for their children and their grand-children.

How do they afford it ? Well, round here (Santa Clara/North San Jose) often entire families (kids, parents, grand-parents) will live in a one or two-bedroom condo/town-home (about $2700-$3200/month). It seems that whole extended families re-locate - there is a huge market in nannies and cooks for-hire to provide for the children whilst the parents work.

And all they do is work. Last week was Spring Break, and whilst we were out enjoying ourselves whilst I took time off, most of my son's classmates went to extra lessons (Math Camp was particularly popular this year at $700 for a week). These kids are going to turn out to have bright, academic futures, but is that life ?

Los Gatos is horribly expensive - average from the San Jose area (about 1500sq ft 3BR/2Bath) is around $2500. And yes, many of them are nasty 1950s bungalows. Move closer to Silicon Valley and prices increase in the new builds, but decrease in the trailer parks and older areas.

Think CAREFULLY. We're here for Middle School (which will be with the clever kids - hope some rubs off on Son....). High school is more (ahem) "diverse" and we'll be out before we hit that nightmare. The alternative is private schooling, and even at my good take-home pay, we can't afford it ($27,000/year we were quoted, plus text books and an academic fee of $5000/year).

Nimco

Interesting, thanks, and yes I can see that Texas might be a difficult place to be a house husband! Also, I think your 3 points here all apply wherever you are - mums are probably often wary of arranging play dates with dads, not that they would admit it. I think being an English dad in charge could be tricky in terms of breaking into established mum networks.

Nimco

Crikey that is scary. Thanks for that 'take-away' as they say out there, and even if I take your post with a pinch of salt for it being your 'personal experience' that is pretty dreadful sounding anecdotally.

Can anybody else share on this topic and do you concur with these thoughts on schooling, ethnic polarisation, and general approach to life with kids?

dlake02

Take it with a large pinch-of-salt as you wish - I simply speak as I find. Not that there aren't issues in the UK - we have actually found the QUALITY of schooling to be MUCH higher than in the UK (my son is doing quadratic equations in 5th Grade - age 10 !). So, long-term, it'll be good for him, I'm sure.

But, the opportunities for him to be a BOY are much less. For example, Cub Scouts MANDATES parental involvement. In the UK, he has been going on overnight camps (no parents, just leaders) since he was a Beaver. Here, parents are REQUIRED until age 9, and that really dampens the "all-boys-together" fun. No camps allowed for more than 72 hours away without a full, annual medical including psychiatric report (I kid you not). And the leaders are parents of boys in the pack. Here, Cub Scouts is a "Program" with defined "Outcomes" and "Advancement" - all a little more earnest and serious than in the UK where it is (mostly) an excuse for a blo*dy good muck around. When I remember the things I used to do in Cubs in England..... Oh my.........

Then there is the stance of the Boy Scouts of America which sticks in my throat - they're based in Texas and have taken a very hard homophobic and religious stand point. Luckily, our local Scout Council have publicly opposed them.

There are things to do - American Youth Soccer Organisation (AYSO) is great (not too competitive), YMCA, Youth Activity Center, etc. You just need to search them out and realise that different ethnic groups have very different motivations and expectations. Very big shock for us, especially as we come from a highly multi-cultural part of the UK.

Of course, if you're going to be a House Husband, you could do what quite a few do here - home school your kids ! Now, socially, I could give you 101 reasons why this is a very bad idea, and how the home-schooled kids we've met have all turned out to be what is best described as "odd," but apparently, it is perfectly acceptable here, and even supported with outreach programs by the school districts. As they say here - YMMV.

N1cky

I agree with lots of what dlake said, but these are pockets, and you don't have to subscribe to that culture for your kids.

The area we live in is very diverse, in my daughters class there are kids from England, China, India, Egypt, Japan, Korea, along with many 2nd, 3rd and longer generation kids from different parts of the world, and plenty of Americans. I love to watch them together, they treat each other all the same, and think it's a great sign for the future generation and racial issues...

We live in a nice city where we can walk to parks, downtown, the library, school, restaurants and walking trails. I don't go anywhere without getting into a conversation with some stranger about something or other. You rarely walk past anyone who doesn't say 'hello'.

In the summer holidays when life is a little less hectic, we tend to walk the dog around 7.30 at night to the local park, the little one runs off and plays on the playground with loads of other kids, while you throw a ball for the dog and have mindless chatter with other people there.

The school drop off/pick up is a mixture of Mums and Dads, again it is rare you won't get into a conversation.

Whatever activity your kids like, there will be a group somewhere close that they can join. Parent involvement is often there if you want it.

There are loads of meet-up groups, I often wish I had been here when my daughter was a younger. There are also lots of 'family' activities at the YMCA (don't think of them like in the UK, these are really nice facilities out here).

I know all this stuff sounds boring and dull, however it's what makes up most of our everyday lives.

I personally think it's a great area, if you can afford to live here. We spend plenty of time making a 45 minute drive into San Francisco to check out a museum or event. Jump on the bikes and go for a ride around the beautiful bay area, walk into town and sit at a pavement cafe and watch the world go by, head to the beach, walking trail, national park... I truly believe the Bay Area can be anything you want it to be.

dlake02

Oh yes - there is good and bad everywhere. My son's class is a real ethnic melting pot, and he is (thank goodness) totally colour-blind. Like you, that can ONLY be a good thing for him and society in the future.

And yes, there are GREAT things to do - we are members at the Cal Academy, Childrens Disccovery, Exploratorium.

But we are doing far more AS A FAMILY than we ever did in the UK. There just seems to be less opportunity for children to be children in groups of other children, at least in the way that there is in the UK. Parental involvement is much more normal and expected here. If you're happy with that, great.

As N1cky says - choose your area very carefully. For example, we've found Saratoga to be far more to our liking for social activities than Santa Clara - it's only 8 miles away, so no biggie traveling especially as petrol is still really free even at $4.40/gallon.

Pombat

I agree with dlake and N1cky. We are in the south bay and certainly the schools are very diverse which is a good thing. We have been very happy with the education our kids have been getting in the public system, but be aware that the API scores and statistics don't tell the whole story and you really need to get a feel for each school and for what might suit your family.There are lots of activities for kids, it all depend what you are looking for. Lots of sports, both recreational and competitive, boy scouts and girl scouts, although I agree they are quite different from the UK versions. I was once asked whether we had heard of boy scouts in England.... when I explained that's where it all started I was met with amazement and disbelief because they obviously thought Boy Scouts of America had been exported to the rest of the world

Vicky88

We currently live in Los Gatos and were previous residents of Saratoga. When we lived in Saratoga 3 years ago we probably had the cheapest house around and the monthly rent was $3,500 and that wasn't anything special. If you were serious about Saratoga you would probably be paying $4k plus for something ordinary. We found Saratoga to be extremely dull, they are very anti-development, a bunch of NIMBY's. When the house we were living in was for sale all the neighbours expressed concern that an Asian family may buy it as that would change the flavour of the local school. Karma did bite them though as it was a Chinese family who purchased the place.

Los Gatos, much better location than Saratoga, at least there is a pulse in this place. However, once again you need to get out your checkbook because it is not cheap. Just because you are in Los Gatos would not mean you are in the LG school system. I know when we were looking 2 years ago for a rental here in LG places that were on for $3-4k were nothing special and were not in the right location for the LG school district.

However I find the Saratoga/LG to be full of people with very deep pockets and kids who seem to be overindulged. You only have to look at the parking lots at the local schools and you will find that 16 yo kids are probably driving more expensive motors than you will be.

The commute to Campbell from either location would be a doddle, 10-15 minutes with no need to get on the freeway.

Haven't found the people here to be particularly friendly. Lots of lollipop type ladies (you know skinny bodies, with the oversized heads who probably only eat 500 calories a day) botoxed to within an inch of their lives with lips that look like dinner plates. They seem to spend all their time at the gym and the rest of their time driving oversized SUVs that they can't park.

You might want to take a look at the money on offer as well. What might look good on paper may not go as far as you would think in this area. SV is extremely expensive, especially if you want to eat non-processed quality food.

Lastly, make sure she is coming on a US benefits package. If you are only being offered 10 vacation days a year, don't even entertain relocating. The hours expected here are stupid and there seems very little opportunity to recharge the batteries.

Yorkieabroad

I've done it in 3 different countries, and without a doubt, the US (or at least, Texas) was by far the hardest. In Singapore, there were a few other "trailing spouses" who were men, so I wasn't alone. In the UK, people just accepted it and got on with it - there were a few other guys doing it (mainly due to unemployment), so again, I didn't "stick out". Here, it was a whole different ballgame. I hit a lot of brick walls and dead ends, and it took a good year and a half before I felt I had a group I "fit in" with, and unfortunately that only came about through seeding by a Scottish lady and an English lady....the Americans just didn't want to know. Only passing on my experience from this particular corner of the world - like I said in my first post, I suspect it will be a lot easier in CA.

dlake02

I wouldn't bank on that. The whole of SV is very status-orientated - you are defined by who you are, what your title is, what educational badges you wear, and where you work.

I've had people introduce themselves to me (socially, not professionally) by telling me their job title, where they got their PhD from and what they're working on. Now some of that is just that everyone is doing roughly the same here, so there is a good degree of work-based chat. But some of it is definitely to position themselves relative to you.

YES ! Even compared to London and the South-East, it is expensive. Very.

Yorkieabroad

[QUOTE=dlake02;10015446]I wouldn't bank on that. The whole of SV is very status-orientated - you are defined by who you are, what your title is, what educational badges you wear, and where you work.

QUOTE]

I think thats the US all over (or at least the bits I've been to) - I normally respond that I retired in 2000 which gets some interesting reactions!

The only reason I mentioned that it may be easier in California than Texas is from comments from other stay at home dads up there. The culture up there seems a lot more accepting of non-traditional arrangements. Before Facebook killed it off, there used to be a fairly active Stay At Home Dad Yahoo group, and a huge percentage of the members were from California - they talked about dad playgroups, mixed playgroups etc, which simply didn't happen round here. There was also a wives of stay at home dads group as well - they wouldn't allow dads to join, so my wife joined and I looked over her shoulder. Real bunch of whiners - could see why they didn't want the guys there And most of them were in CA as well.

Yorkieabroad

[QUOTE=dlake02;10013031].

No camps allowed for more than 72 hours away without a full, annual medical including psychiatric report (I kid you not). QUOTE]

Psych report? really? Been in scouting for 6 years down here and never seen that one - we just use the regular BSA annual medical forms. Maybe that's a local requirement? (to see if they've been harmed by these hordes of stay at home dads)

Agree with the other comments about Cubs though - waaaaay too much parental involvement, and focus on advancement at any cost, even if it means the parents doing the requirements i/o the kids Eldest has crossed over into Scouts - still early days, but on first impressions, that seems like its going to be a lot more like I was used to - big focus on boy led troop, boys being independent and parents getting out of the way!