Registering for Selective Service
 

I am hoping someone here (male) has been down the road of dealing with the issue of registering for Selective Service when they were too old to do so. As you may know, all males in the US have to register between the ages of 18 and 26 for what I would guess is effectively "the draft" if it were to happen. I became a PR in 2002 and a US citizen about 3 years ago. I'd like to have the ability to apply for federal jobs, but to actually be employed by the feds you have to have registered for the selective service between 18 and 26. I was still a resident of the UK then so obviously I didn't do it.

It seems like I can get some kind of Status Information Letter from the Selective Service System that would effectively state that I am exempt from registering due to age and not being eligible to register etc. I just called them and spoke to possibly the rudest person on the planet. He insisted that I need to prove every date that I entered the US and what age I was then. Apparently this includes coming over on holidays to the US. I could probably remember the years of a couple of my holidays but not all of them. I certainly don't have any documentation that shows when I entered/left and if I did, it would be in a box in my brothers attic in England somewhere molding away. The rude guy said I could contact USCIS to get the dates etc of all my visits, which seems a bit of stretch going back 26 years, plus I'm guessing they would take years to find this info. I seem to remember having to tell USCIS when I was on holiday in this country for my citizenship application (I think I guessed), but I didn't have to provide passport stamps etc

Anybody been through this before? I'm not gonna be calling the SS back as the guy berated me and then hung up on me in the end when I suggested it was crazy to demand such info and paperwork from 25+ years ago. I realized just now that the SS is part of the Dept of Defense, so his attitude made sense, being pretty much like a Sgt major on first day of boot camp.

Hoping someone can give me some insight if they've been through this before.

Cheers.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

Did you get the number to call from this web page:
https://www.sss.gov/FSmen.htm

Even if you did, it would seem that all you need to submit for the letter is your immigration history, which would show that you did not become a Permanent Resident until after you'd passed the age for registration. Try asking for the letter by mail rather than by phone.

Regards, JEff

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

Yes that's the website I went to originally. The form you fill in to apply for the letter asks for the date you entered the US for the first time and all other alien statuses since entering with dates and supporting documentation. I first came here on holiday in 1987 and don't have that passport anymore, had other holidays after, and was on a J-1 in the 90's. No idea if I have anything supporting that last entry/exit. I'm probably going to have to fudge it, but with a recent citizenship application maybe any discrepancies will be picked up (or maybe the USCIS and Dept of Defence don't talk to each other?).

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

I'd have thought holidays wouldn't be all that important. Don't think you need to sign up for SS while on a J1 so that wouldn't be important. Date you entered when you got your PR would be, that with your age should be all that you really need.

To get citizenship though, you needed to show this anyway I thought, or at least if you hadn't done SS, to have shown good moral character for 3/5 years after the age of 26 to be eligible.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

if your route to LPR status involved filing a DS-160, you have to list all your previous visits to the US on that, so if you still have a copy of it that might do the trick.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

Everything you said Bob is what I said to the guy on the phone, only to be met with outright hostility. When I let out an exasperated laugh at what he said, he started treating me like a new guy outside the barracks at boot camp accusing of me of thinking it was all funny. It certainly was all very strange, particularly as the guy himself was obviously an immigrant by his accent. Basically, it was if you don't provide all the info about dates spent in the US for the SS (I don't think the initials are a coincidence based on his attitude) to do a background check, then I don't deserve to even be in this country. Seems odd having jumped through so many hoops for the green card and then citizenship to have to prove so much and more all over again. Should have got his name, of course, but he put the phone down on me.

Don't remember doing a DS-160, but it seems I'm going to have to dig through a lot of old papers.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

Almost makes me wonder if their call center has been "outsourced" ... :sneaky:

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

Oops, I meant DS-230, the immgrant visa form, if you went that route.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

Do you even need to speak to Selective Service? If you became a PR in 2002, and were over 26 at the time, won't the agency concerned accept that as evidence that you did not need to register with Selective Service?

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

Well bearing in mind that all the documentation that SS apparently need is almost certainly non existent or in a box in an attic in England, then I would hope that the govt agency that may hire me may be reasonable and accept that I wasn't living in the US between the age of 18 and 26. However, the job application does state that documentary evidence is required from SS that I am exempt. Guess I'll see if I get offered a job and then cross that bridge when I get to it, but it would be nice to know I won't lose a potential job just because I didn't keep track of my holidays 20+ years ago and keep the passports from that time. Thought I was done with so much bureaucracy after becoming a citizen.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

Are you saying that you cannot locate any of your immigration paperwork or old passports? Perhaps obtain a copy of your immigration file from USCIS:
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...0045f3d6a1RCRD

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

I have my current and last UK passport which would cover my entry in 2002 when getting permanent residency, but any paperwork from that application would be held by the employer that sponsored me or in my brothers attic in England, neither of which would be accessible very easily. I'll see if that Freedom of Information Act from USCIS can help me out.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

I did not register for the SS draft whilst I was on a student visa a long time ago.
After getting a green card and then much later naturalizing, I needed to clear my record in this respects also in order to get a US security clearance for a job.
I do remember filling out a form with dates and places showing when I was here or not in order to "clear things up" with the SS.

This was all before (9-11) and the madness since then.

The SS ended up sending me a letter saying that in any future request (by me) for a security clearance or other Govt benefit, it would be the issuing authorities' decision whether or not to allow or disallow.

Just try to do what they are ordering you to do. They are a bunch of cnuts, just like USCIS are.

My eldest son will be 18 in 3 years. I do not want him to sign up for the SS draft list. He has dual UK/USA nationality and I'm concerned about what they might do to him if he refuses since nowadays there is so much paranoia in Amerika.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

If he refuses what? To register with Selective Service? Or, having registered, to respond to a non-existant draft?

Regards, JEff

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

If he could, possibly, maybe want a Federal job in the future than he dosen't have a choice. Besides isn't that HIS choice rather than yours?

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

So you had problems because you had not registered with the SS but were able to get the clearance you needed because you had not needed to. Now you want to put your son in the same position, but without any permissible reason, and therefore in the event he needs security clearance later in life he will be unable to get it. :confused:

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

To register for a draft list.
Which is what it is.

Sure, its his choice, I simply said I do not want him to.
His choice / my opinion and desire as a parent.

You made a lot of assumptions there.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

I have reviewed what you said, and what I said in response, and I believe I summarised what you said, nothing more. Perhaps you would care to educate us. :confused:

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

Not really, but its nice of you to ask.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

I got my visa on April 25th, 2003, three days after my 26th birthday. The guys ahead of me in the line was a younger guy and he was asked to complete some forms on SS... I noted that they didn't ask me about it, later finding out that I was too old (just), but that was unintentional.

I didn't think anything else about it outside of when I checked the box on the Citizenship form.

Having just looked through the link posted to the SSS.gov website, I never had a letter from the Selective Service people confirming whether I was or was not required to register.

Their were no issues when I applied for citizenship. To be honest, before I looked at that link, I never even thought about the possibility of their being an issue.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

So you had potential problems re Selective Service registration that you were able to resolve, but want to put your son in potentially the same situation but with no valid mitigating factors. Good job! I'm alright, Jack, pull up the ladder! :rolleyes:

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

I don't remember getting asked anything about SS when getting citizenship either. It's only now I've applied for a federal job that it has come up as the application asks for my SS registration number or a letter from the SS stating I did not need to register. I guess I'll wait and see what the potential employer says if I get offered a job as I just pulled this from the SS website:

"FINAL DECISION – The benefit agency official handling your case, not the Selective Service, will determine whether you have shown that your failure to register was not a knowing and willful failure to register. The final decision regarding your eligibility for the benefit that you seek (for me - a job) will be made by the agency granting the benefit..."

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

I agree. We are not just talking about only civil servant positions but also positions at NASA, CDC, Lawrence Livermore Labs, and JPL as well as possibly Sandia National Labs, Lockheed, and possibly many others. Also financial aid and other benefits can be denied.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

You can get it from CBP, you file this form: http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/g-639.pdf to get a copy of your entry record from TECS.

No it's not, it's routinely done, he gave you the correct information. The form is a USCIS form but technically the record is maintained by CBP.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

OK, thanks Steve. No sure why he had to be such an a$$hole rather than do his job and be just a bit helpful, tell me that this is routinely done, is pretty easy, and that a simple FOIA form on the web was the way to go.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

Narrow down on the box on the form or with a letter specifically what you're after, tell them it is for the SSS to show you didn't have to register, otherwise you'll get a letter back a month from now saying the search will cost more than $25 to process. Or include a letter saying you're okay with a higher limit.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

OK, cheers.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

Just went to fill out the G-639 Freedom of Information Act form and looked at the guidelines for filling it out and it includes under "When Should I not file a FOIA request": To obtain proof of status (i.e., Social Security benefit, Selective Service requirement). Guess I'm back to square one.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

The actual draft ceased to exist 40 years ago. The current system is just a registration, a list. The government now knows who is here in any case. So the penalty for failure to register is something to be avoided.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

You don't need a letter. It clearly states so here:

http://www.sss.gov/Status.html

No status information letters are required from the Selective Service System for :

Non-U.S. male who came into this country for the first time after his 26th birthday
Date of entry stamp in his passport, I-94 with date of entry stamp on it, or a letter from the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) indicating the date the man entered the United States. If the men entered the U.S. illegally after his 26th birthday, he must provide proof that he was not living in the U.S. from age 18 through 25. Resident Alien Card (Green Card) is not valid as proof of the date of entry to the United States.

Non-U.S. male on a valid non-immigrant visa
For example, if the man entered the United States as an F-1 student visa and remained in that status until his 26th birthday, he would need to provide documentation indicating that he was admitted on an F-1 visa and attended school full-time as required. Acceptable documentation for this situation include a copy of his I-20 form or a letter from the school he attended indicating his full-time attendance as a non-immigrant alien. The same thing applies for all non-immigrant statuses.

A male born prior to 1960
Official government issued document showing date of birth such as state ID card, driver’s license, passport, birth certificate.

A veteran
DD-214 or current fulltime active duty orders, military ID card. For men over age
26 who failed to register, active duty U.S. military service is compelling
evidence that their failure to register was not knowing and willful.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

Dual nationality is irrelevant. He must register. Whether he would actually be inducted or not depends on whether the country of other nationality has an agreement with the US.

http://www.sss.gov/fsaliens.htm

Besides, there hasn't been a draft in 40 years even though the US has been involved in other wars since then.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

Whether for a holiday in the 1980's or under my J-1 in the 90's this would be me. Except I have no documentation anymore of any of those visits/visas. I'll just see if I get offered a federal job and cross the SS bridge when/if it comes up, although the application process certainly suggested it was a box that needed to be ticked.

Re: Registering for Selective Service
 

I don't care what it says in the instructions, if you need evidence and you don't have any, that is the only way to get it. There is no other. Unless you can get a copy of the I-20 or DS-2019 from the college or USCIS. Request it in the Privacy Act request.

But yes the employer should be clever enough to realize that you were exempt.