Reform!!!
May 18th 2017, 9:59 am
#16
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 23
Re: Reform!!!
Unfortunately your perception that the U.K. "lets in people very easily" is wrong. My story is just one case that proves that this simply isn't true. My husband has a criminal record from over 20 years ago (long before we met) and this has given him a lifetime ban from the U.K. - despite being married to a British citizen and having been law-abiding ever since. If the roles were reversed and I had a theft conviction from over 20 years ago, I would at least have a chance at living in the USA with a waiver. No such thing in the U.K. Many Americans here also feel that the USA "lets in people very easily" - hence the popularity of Mr Trump with certain groups of people. It's not until you actually try to immigrate or try to bring someone into a country do you realize just how hard it is to come legally. People I work with here were shocked that it took my husband almost a year to bring his wife into the country from the U.K. and that I had to have s medical, etc. They were also under the impression that anyone can just "stroll in". And I think the USA is a lot more open than the U.K. Take the F-4 category, for example, siblings of USCs can obtain permanent residency here (and subsequently citizenship) all based on the fact that a sibling happens to be a USC. I don't know of any other country that has such an open door.
My husband and I worked out that when I take citizenship in 2019, we could theoretically petition another 20 people: my parents, my 4 siblings, their spouses and their (between them) 10 children, assuming that finances and timing are on our side. So from one person getting married to an American citizen 21 people can theoretically obtain residency. You only need to look at threads on immigration forums to see that many from developing countries do indeed petition for a host of family members before the ink is even dry on their citizenship certificate. That's not possible in the U.K.
My husband and I worked out that when I take citizenship in 2019, we could theoretically petition another 20 people: my parents, my 4 siblings, their spouses and their (between them) 10 children, assuming that finances and timing are on our side. So from one person getting married to an American citizen 21 people can theoretically obtain residency. You only need to look at threads on immigration forums to see that many from developing countries do indeed petition for a host of family members before the ink is even dry on their citizenship certificate. That's not possible in the U.K.
I did say i felt as if the uk was easy as everything is suffering here housing/nhs/schools are packed..i feel we are very populated .
sponsoring all the family members you would need good finances as i am sure you need to support them all if they go out work as they wouldnt be intitled to welfare ?
which i think should be something the uk should look into doing
May 18th 2017, 10:09 am
#17
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 23
Re: Reform!!!
..whats going to happen to this country? i feel like the government arent doing enough and again i may be wrong but this is happening 10miles from where i live...oh an also on the show someone selling his and his partners organs...wtf
May 18th 2017, 10:22 am
#18
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 65,493
Re: Reform!!!
They do. That's why it's so hard for UKC to sponsor their spouses. They have to earn a certain amount and have a certain amount in the bank for a period of time.It is not easy for someone outside the EU to migrate to the UK regardless of how crowded you think the UK is and the vast majority of the UK is green and unpopulated.
May 18th 2017, 12:58 pm
#19
Just Joined
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 23
Re: Reform!!!
They do. That's why it's so hard for UKC to sponsor their spouses. They have to earn a certain amount and have a certain amount in the bank for a period of time.It is not easy for someone outside the EU to migrate to the UK regardless of how crowded you think the UK is and the vast majority of the UK is green and unpopulated.
May 18th 2017, 1:07 pm
#20
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,448
Re: Reform!!!
That's not necessarily true, because if you earn the specified amount you don't have to have any savings and the specified minimum amount that you need to be earning is pretty derisory. It isn't much more per week than I was earning laboring in a warehouse when I had a summer job when I was a student, and that wasn't exactly yesterday. Granted many people don't earn that much, but IMO that is an education/training issue, not an immigration issue.
May 18th 2017, 2:44 pm
#21
Heading for Poppyland
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: North Norfolk and northern New York State
Posts: 14,543
Re: Reform!!!
well i have never had to try... we have a great problem with immigrating...i have had to make a doctors appointment for my daughter who is getting treated for asthma and i have to wait until 30th may and i made it last fri? years back i could get one in days....i also have been waiting on a hip operation and because bed shortage i have been warned it may get cancelled..which i have already been waiting on for years? one of the top kids hospitals turned kids away because no space it happening more and more and would love to know what the future will look like if they dont address this issue. i have never lived in another country and always worked yet i cant get council housing so i pay a fortune for rent but pay into the system hows that right...i think the country has a great problem ahead
May 18th 2017, 2:49 pm
#22
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,448
Re: Reform!!!
Disclosure: This is a trick question - there are already enough cures, treatments, procedures, and therapies to consume 100% of government revenue. Without some form of spending cap and treatment rationing the NHS will bankrupt the country.
Last edited by Pulaski; May 18th 2017 at 3:39 pm.
May 18th 2017, 3:33 pm
#23
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Was Virginia, now Yorkshire.
Posts: 2,333
Re: Reform!!!
well i have never had to try... we have a great problem with immigrating...i have had to make a doctors appointment for my daughter who is getting treated for asthma and i have to wait until 30th may and i made it last fri? years back i could get one in days....i also have been waiting on a hip operation and because bed shortage i have been warned it may get cancelled..which i have already been waiting on for years? one of the top kids hospitals turned kids away because no space it happening more and more and would love to know what the future will look like if they dont address this issue. i have never lived in another country and always worked yet i cant get council housing so i pay a fortune for rent but pay into the system hows that right...i think the country has a great problem ahead
I would also assert they have not done enough to ensure we have enough university places to train future doctors, nurses, pharmacists, technicians etc to staff the NHS, and it wouldn't have taken much imagination to ensure a sufficient stream of UK students to fill those places (eg offering grants to those students conditional on them working for the NHS for a period of time like 10 years). There might be plenty of immigrants using the NHS, but then there also plenty of immigrants staffing the NHS, and should they all decide to return to their country of origin then that will be a disaster. 26% of all doctors are not British - 10% from the EU and 16% from the RoW.
May 18th 2017, 3:40 pm
#24
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Was Virginia, now Yorkshire.
Posts: 2,333
May 18th 2017, 4:05 pm
#25
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,448
Re: Reform!!!
Where do you get that figure from? It's currently running at 18.8%. (page 5)
Last edited by Pulaski; May 18th 2017 at 4:08 pm.
May 18th 2017, 5:06 pm
#26
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Was Virginia, now Yorkshire.
Posts: 2,333
Re: Reform!!!
oh how convenient, maybe you need to get better sources
Not really, it's entirely possible to either change spending priorities if they don't want to increase overall spending, or raise additional income if they do. Not rocket science, and there is a clear alternative with the major political parties offering different visions (LibDems putting up income tax by 1p for example). We have a choice and a vote to use.
but in any case it is unrealistic to expect healthcare spending to consume an ever greater percentage of government expenditure.
May 18th 2017, 5:23 pm
#27
SUPER MODERATOR
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: In a darkened room somewhere.............
Posts: 34,035
Re: Reform!!!
well i have never had to try... we have a great problem with immigrating...i have had to make a doctors appointment for my daughter who is getting treated for asthma and i have to wait until 30th may and i made it last fri? years back i could get one in days....i also have been waiting on a hip operation and because bed shortage i have been warned it may get cancelled..which i have already been waiting on for years? one of the top kids hospitals turned kids away because no space it happening more and more and would love to know what the future will look like if they dont address this issue. i have never lived in another country and always worked yet i cant get council housing so i pay a fortune for rent but pay into the system hows that right...i think the country has a great problem ahead
None of what you've mentioned is immigrants faults (unless you read the Daily Mail or the Express in which case, of course everything is immigrants fault, including global warming no doubt
). And as said above, it's no easier for somebody from the US to move to the UK than it is for you to move there.
May 18th 2017, 5:54 pm
#28
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,448
Re: Reform!!!
Given that I was talking about percentages, do you have any suggestions for increasing spending above 100%? ..... Which makes me think - borrowing is the difference! .... The data you linked is percentage of spending, but the UK budget is far from balanced .... the numbers I read recently were percentage of income (tax revenue), which is why your figures show 18% and I read "over 30%".
May 18th 2017, 7:20 pm
#29
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Was Virginia, now Yorkshire.
Posts: 2,333
Re: Reform!!!
..... Which makes me think - borrowing is the difference! .... The data you linked is percentage of spending, but the UK budget is far from balanced .... the numbers I read recently were percentage of income (tax revenue), which is why your figures show 18% and I read "over 30%".
I'd suggest double checking such easily verifiable facts before basing your arguments on "something I read".
May 18th 2017, 9:46 pm
#30
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,448
Re: Reform!!!
... FFS Pulaski, your exact quote was:
... And you're still wrong, because the very next page of the budget I linked to previously shows health spending at 20.3% of income. ....