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Is it really better in England, or just rose tinted glasses?

Is it really better in England, or just rose tinted glasses?

Old Feb 6th 2011, 4:50 pm
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Default Re: Is it really better in England, or just rose tinted glasses?

Originally Posted by Pistolpete2
And as a result the interpretation/intent of right to bear arms has been abused by the gun lobby.

Switzerland apparently has the same right to bear arms as a civilian militia which is why THEY have a large proportion of the population with firearms/shotguns BUT one of the lowest per capita number of gun deaths on the planet.

Switzerland of course doesn't have the racial overtones which first justified the current enacted right to bear arms in the US and where in some states folks might actually be looking to blow certain people away.

The justification for the use of firearms simply isn't there in the Uk as it is in the US. If you use unreasonable force to ward off an intruder in the Uk and blow him/her away you will clearly be charged with murder and may be convicted. Likewise, the intruder doesn't need to arm himself with an uzi knowing full well that the resident/victim is "packing", a point apparently missed by the pro-second amendment crowd.
I thought the rationale behind the right to bear arms part of the constitution was to enable the new United States of America to defend itself against any attack by the English (hence my reference to a civilian militia)?

Yes, the whole gun lobby's use of the Constitution underlines the absurdness of how every word of this document is clung to with a nationalistic fervour.
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Old Feb 6th 2011, 4:59 pm
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Default Re: Is it really better in England, or just rose tinted glasses?

Originally Posted by dunroving
I thought the rationale behind the right to bear arms part of the constitution was to enable the new United States of America to defend itself against any attack by the English (hence my reference to a civilian militia)?

Yes, the whole gun lobby's use of the Constitution underlines the absurdness of how every word of this document is clung to with a nationalistic fervour.
Exactly so! Quite apart from the Continental Army, the revolutionaries were already using militia against the English prior to 1776.

Presumably Switzerland also was only to defend only against a large foreign aggressor.
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Old Feb 6th 2011, 5:01 pm
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Default Re: Is it really better in England, or just rose tinted glasses?

Originally Posted by dunroving
Yes, I read that part, but having just re-read your post I realise I was thrown by your use of a double-negative (i.e., I think the question of whether to allow the public to carry weapons IS pretty important - I don't think it is important that we should have the right, in fact the exact opposite).

I get the impression you are pretty bitter about the US, after living there for 10 years?
No, not really bitter. But my timing was truly awful having been practically wiped out up by the largest housing market crash in US history (even larger than the one recorded in the Great Depression)

I think I am living proof that hard work alone is no guarantee of success. If the gods refuse to cooperate you might as well kick back, chill out and go fishing or something.
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Old Feb 6th 2011, 5:36 pm
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Default Re: Is it really better in England, or just rose tinted glasses?

Originally Posted by Howard Morris

I think I am living proof that hard work alone is no guarantee of success. If the gods refuse to cooperate you might as well kick back, chill out and go fishing or something.
Hi Howard,

There's a kind of irony there.

Most certainly the truth in the Uk was that hard work alone was NOT a guarantee of success and the vast majority were really treading water financially from just their pay-checks. Folks chose to jump on the property ladder with access to cheap mortgage funds to try and make a difference to their fortunes and live better from it. In a way, I believe the government of the day fully relied on this to keep the services economy stoked-up as stagnation was the only alternative. The stock market most certainly offered little interest to the masses any more than Vegas might. In similar fashion, in the US, property, even your own dwelling, was perceived as an investment and the creation of equity in it gave rise to spending power one way or another, vital to the consumer economy.

I think, in the absence of a second go around, we may have to face the stagnation this time, or even stagflation.
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Old Feb 6th 2011, 6:04 pm
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Default Re: Is it really better in England, or just rose tinted glasses?

Originally Posted by Howard Morris
No, not really bitter. But my timing was truly awful having been practically wiped out up by the largest housing market crash in US history (even larger than the one recorded in the Great Depression)

I think I am living proof that hard work alone is no guarantee of success. If the gods refuse to cooperate you might as well kick back, chill out and go fishing or something.
If it's any consolation, I have been similarlly stung by my two moves back to the UK (during the height of the dotcom bubble and during the height of the housing bubble). If I had just stayed in TN in 1999, or stayed in NC in 2006, I would have easily paid off my mortgage well before now and be pumping extra money into my pension funds. Instead, I've pumped everything into buying an overpriced former council house and would now barely break even if I sold (i.e., be able to pay off the outstanding mortgage amount, not make back what I have put into it). I'm with you that simply working hard and trying to play by the rules doesn't necessarily bring its rewards these days.
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Old Feb 6th 2011, 7:30 pm
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Default Re: Is it really better in England, or just rose tinted glasses?

Originally Posted by Pistolpete2
Switzerland apparently has the same right to bear arms as a civilian militia which is why THEY have a large proportion of the population with firearms/shotguns BUT one of the lowest per capita number of gun deaths on the planet.
Not sure I entirely agree with the last bit

http://www.infertrust.org/current_issues.asp
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Old Feb 6th 2011, 9:17 pm
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Default Re: Is it really better in England, or just rose tinted glasses?

Originally Posted by Pistolpete2
If you use unreasonable force to ward off an intruder in the Uk and blow him/her away you will clearly be charged with murder and may be convicted.
If you use unreasonable force in the US you would suffer a similar fate. Having done a course to explain the civilian use of firearms it was one of the things that was made abundantly clear.

Likewise if the blowing of someone away, as you put it, in the UK is a reasonable use of force it is called self defense. It is what UK police firearms officers rely on when justifying the use of their firearm.
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Old Feb 6th 2011, 9:35 pm
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Default Re: Is it really better in England, or just rose tinted glasses?

Originally Posted by dunroving
If it's any consolation, I have been similarlly stung by my two moves back to the UK (during the height of the dotcom bubble and during the height of the housing bubble). If I had just stayed in TN in 1999, or stayed in NC in 2006, I would have easily paid off my mortgage well before now and be pumping extra money into my pension funds. Instead, I've pumped everything into buying an overpriced former council house and would now barely break even if I sold (i.e., be able to pay off the outstanding mortgage amount, not make back what I have put into it). I'm with you that simply working hard and trying to play by the rules doesn't necessarily bring its rewards these days.
Well, as I say. There's no point in destroying yourself with bitterness. As the song goes "Life's a piece of **** when you look at it......."

On the bright side I have 3 houses which, if I can keep rented out, will eventually pay off (just a lot later than I thought!) Plus, by God's grace I have my health, have some sellable skills, and am still young enough at 41 to bounce back.

In fact, I plan on coming out of the corner swinging - I just got permanent residence to Canada and am moving there in the summer. I'll give that a try! I'm not going to try quite so hard though. More fishing. Less work. I'm going to aim for a bit less and be happy with what I can make out of it.
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Old Feb 9th 2011, 7:39 pm
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Default Re: Is it really better in England, or just rose tinted glasses?

Originally Posted by Hubcaps
I'm truly sorry that this has happened to you and fully understand your reasons for returning. I really hope everything works out for you in the UK.
I'm going to sound like a complete bastard now but considering the waiting times, the postcode lottery, in some places the level of care and never mind if NICE authorise your drugs or not the UK doesn't always take care of its citizens either
On the other hand, if you do want to have private care in the UK, you can opt for that -- and at a fraction of the cost of the USA -- as I understand it.
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Old Feb 9th 2011, 7:46 pm
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Default Re: Is it really better in England, or just rose tinted glasses?

Originally Posted by Howard Morris
Well, as I say. There's no point in destroying yourself with bitterness. As the song goes "Life's a piece of **** when you look at it......."

On the bright side I have 3 houses which, if I can keep rented out, will eventually pay off (just a lot later than I thought!) Plus, by God's grace I have my health, have some sellable skills, and am still young enough at 41 to bounce back.

In fact, I plan on coming out of the corner swinging - I just got permanent residence to Canada and am moving there in the summer. I'll give that a try! I'm not going to try quite so hard though. More fishing. Less work. I'm going to aim for a bit less and be happy with what I can make out of it.
Yes, I spotted your posts about going to Canada, best of luck with that.

I think it was Dave Ramsey (financial guru) who said in one of his books that your #1 investment is yourself, or your health (can't remember which). Forget all the get rich quick schemes, you have to be healthy and/or driven enough to generate money in the first place or there won't be anythng to invest.
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Old Feb 9th 2011, 7:50 pm
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Default Re: Is it really better in England, or just rose tinted glasses?

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
Depending on a patient's age and the general prognosis of the cancer, doing nothing is often the best approach for older people. This - for once - probably has nothing to do with health insurance: I have a relative in the UK who's lived with prostate cancer for over a decade. He's now in his late 80's and something else almost certainly will cause his death before prostate cancer does.
Yes, I have a friend whose mother is 84+ and she just got treated for colon cancer here in California. No problems so far... But after 65 you are covered under Medicare, so you don't need to worry about massive bills. It's really the middle aged people who get bankrupted by illness in the USA.

In the US: it's only good to be young and healthy and wealthy Or really old -- but you should hope you have a private pension, or you'll be homeless.

Feeling a bit cynical about the US recently... Especially the "taking care of its citizen's part" -- hearing recently that the new Health Care Bill is being rejected in many states right now.
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Old Feb 9th 2011, 8:02 pm
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Default Re: Is it really better in England, or just rose tinted glasses?

Originally Posted by citizenmarie
Yes, I have a friend whose mother is 84+ and she just got treated for colon cancer here in California. No problems so far... But after 65 you are covered under Medicare, so you don't need to worry about massive bills. It's really the middle aged people who get bankrupted by illness in the USA.

In the US: it's only good to be young and healthy and wealthy Or really old -- but you should hope you have a private pension, or you'll be homeless.

Feeling a bit cynical about the US recently... Especially the "taking care of its citizen's part" -- hearing recently that the new Health Care Bill is being rejected in many states right now.
The Health Care Bill is flawed anyway. The crux of it is that it requires people to buy insurance. But the insurance companies (and their very cosy relationship with "health care providers") is a huge part of the problem anyway.
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Old Feb 9th 2011, 8:11 pm
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Default Re: Is it really better in England, or just rose tinted glasses?

Originally Posted by Howard Morris
The Health Care Bill is flawed anyway. The crux of it is that it requires people to buy insurance. But the insurance companies (and their very cosy relationship with "health care providers") is a huge part of the problem anyway.
I agree it is completely flawed! It just has a few human decency provisions in there that I happen to agree with: like you can't refuse someone health insurance for having a "pre-existing" condition, or dump them when they get sick, or not cover basic checkups.

The bill was a start at least on releasing the stranglehold of the insurance companies here. They are run like corporations and we know those guys can be so very caring towards those less fortunate
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Old Feb 9th 2011, 8:27 pm
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Default Re: Is it really better in England, or just rose tinted glasses?

Originally Posted by Howard Morris
The Health Care Bill is flawed anyway. The crux of it is that it requires people to buy insurance. But the insurance companies (and their very cosy relationship with "health care providers") is a huge part of the problem anyway.
I read a fascinating article in the NYT back at the time when this thing was going through the Senate and Olympia Snowe, senator for Maine was the only Republican that was prepared to go with the Democrats IF they would not press for the public option. They did an expose on healthcare in the little old state of Maine where they have TRIED to implement reform on a state basis and it has proved to be simply unworkable and seemingly the only folks that will stand to gain will be those who use the medical centres for the poor.

tp://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/11/health/policy/11maine.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=maine healthcare&st=cse
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Old Feb 9th 2011, 8:50 pm
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Default Re: Is it really better in England, or just rose tinted glasses?

Originally Posted by citizenmarie
I agree it is completely flawed! It just has a few human decency provisions in there that I happen to agree with: like you can't refuse someone health insurance for having a "pre-existing" condition, or dump them when they get sick, or not cover basic checkups.

The bill was a start at least on releasing the stranglehold of the insurance companies here. They are run like corporations and we know those guys can be so very caring towards those less fortunate
Yes, but while you can't refuse to insure people with a PE you can certainly price them out of the market. So it's a worthless clause.

I don't think the bill releases the stranglehold of the insurance companies at all. In fact, it just puts a lot more business their way by forcing everybody to buy their crappy products.

I can't believe that Obama wasted the first half of his term to push this junk through.
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