anotherlimey

This conversation was about the "concept" of hyphen-Americans, that cartoon was about hyphen-Americans. There's plenty of Americans who agree with the cartoon's caption.

Yes people are proud, and I'm not disagreeing with diversity, what I'm talking about is people who for all intents and purposes have already assimilated but persist in calling themselves a hyphenated name. It seems that just being "American" isn't good enough these days, but I was under the impression (mistakenly perhaps?) that it was this - being American - that immigrants were after.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I am curious.

TruBrit

i always think of curly of corrie fame

montgomail

I would

fatbrit

They were fifth graders! What sort of meaningful education can you get our of sprouting these hateful words about at this age? And sprouting it in a crossword clue, too! If you want to make a serious discussion of it in a class of tenth graders, fine. But, as you realize, it was most probably a silly mistake rather than produced with intent and has little news value. So why do Faux News push it? The answer is obvious to me.

BigDavyG

Ok - the use of the word in the class was totally inappropriate, but wtf are you on about there ??

Leslie

I think most immigrants are here to make money - certainly not to "be American" .... Sorry but that's the truth and I'm ok with it. What does that even mean "be American" ??? I'm American and I don't even know.

As far as Americans who wish to hyphenate ... On some level or another they are taught to identify with the nation of origin of their family - hence the prideful emotions and wish to express it along with their nationality.

On the other hand - the majority of black people here were forced immigrants so they were never given a choice as to what they might or might not want to be. So, if they "want" to be African-Americans and for the first time in their history (here) they actually have a choice - why deny them that?

anotherlimey

What's to be American? - That should be the beauty of "being American"; it means nothings except 1) you hold a US passport, and 2) you're free, being "American" should not define anything else about you, whereas hyphenated-Americans implies something more weather it's skin colour or the language you speak. More labels = more prejudices in my view.

I thought it was a noble cause at least!

RoadWarriorFromLP

That's precisely the point of hyphenation.

The fundamental difference between being an American and most of the world's nationalities is that the American construct is ultimately political in nature. Whereas most nationalities are a byproduct of their language, ethnic heritage, cuisine, religion, etc., the US has no such monoculture upon which to rely for a common identity.

Hyphenation allows Americanism to function in the first place -- it makes it easier to assimilate. The inherent message is that you can have whatever language, festivals and food you want -- you're ultimately still a Yank. (OK, the Southerners don't like "Yank", but they still haven't gotten over losing the Civil War just yet. Give 'em time.)

The American mythos does not come from sharing a common past, but from sharing some common institutions (Constitution, White House, etc.) and political heritage (George Washington's cherry tree and all that.) You have to get your heritage from somewhere, and that's where the hyphen becomes useful. Pretty harmless stuff, unless having Budweiser with green food coloring on St. Patrick's day is particularly offensive to you.

The Canadians have a similar concept -- of course, they had to be different, and refer to it as the "cultural mosaic" -- but it works pretty well for them, too.

This is, by the way, the reason that religion and politics are generally verboten topics here, because avoiding venomous arguments on these subjects helps to keep us together. It also explains why immigrants generally better assimilate in the US than elsewhere, because it is easier to become an American while holding onto the familiar than it is to become European. You don't see us fighting over headscarves in US schools as were found in France, for example.

anotherlimey

So it's part of the process of assimilation?

If that's the case can you explain why we have people who still call themselves the hyphenated name even after many generations? I've met people who must be 4th or 5th generation who still refer to themselves as xxxxx-American, but I've also met people who are 2nd generation and call themselves just American. Are people who are traditionally more "oppressed" keeping the hyphenated name longer, e.g. African-Americans?

The reason I don't like it is because people attach other traits to these labels.

YankeemovingAbroad

Kinda like a brit who has move to America and become a citizen yet still consider them self to be british.They want to hold on to past origins.

RoadWarriorFromLP

Humans tend to like have a sense of their familial history and personal heritage. Speaking for myself, my family came to the US just after the end of WWII. Do you really think I'm obliged to feign no interest in whatever cultural heritage I may carry from a time that predates 1945?

In any case, I don't see the problem here. It works for the US, and it's generally pretty harmless, so aside from encountering the stereotypical "Irish American" who couldn't find Ireland on a map, I don't see why you can't indulge us in our quaint colonial ways. Occasional absurdities aside, I prefer having hyphenated Americans to disaffected Brits of Pakistani origin who feel so alienated from their home country that they bring explosives onto the London tube or the Glasgow airport because they feel no connection to their own countrymen.

Hyphenation provides a middle ground that deters radicalism and provides a sense of connection in a country otherwise too new to provide it without importing it from elsewhere. If it works, it's a good thing, and it generally works pretty well.

snowbunny

Well, after reading this:

"A parent, Clifford Branan, said his son's teacher assigned the homework Friday, as a supplement to "Sounder," a book his class is reading. The book is commonly used in classrooms nationwide to illustrate racial bigotry and sharecropping hardships through the eyes of a young black boy."

I believe that most Tennessee fifth-graders know the meaning of the "n" word.... but possibly not all of them. My eldest probably wouldn't have known it back then, though she certainly does now, four years later. If there was reason to believe that some of the children wouldn't know the word, would it be acceptable to explain? (eg there are kids from India who've just arrived in the US and I have no idea if they'd know the word)

I'm also appalled that *fifth*-graders are doing crosswords with words they should already know. Where are the essays?

veryfunny

You try telling the average American that.

anotherlimey

That's quite recent immigration though really.

That's true, you don't get many Pakistanis saying they're Pakistani-British (?), but then IIRC not all of those guys were born in the UK either. Also the US doesn't seem to have such a large Muslim community from that part of the world.

I'd say it's a bit of a stretch to say it deters radicalism.

Anyway, that's not what I was getting at, it's the negative attributes that people attach to these labels which I think undermines their use; this negates any positive use.

snowbunny

There's self-identification and then there's the way people outside the group label you, too.

Assuming they don't use the "P" word -- if a (white native born) Briton refers to a person who is obviously of Indian or Pakistani descent, will they call them "Pakistani" or "of Pakistani origin"? I believe so. Here, where there are many people who were either born in Mexico or who descend from Mexican immigrants, using the word "Mexican-American" actually is inclusive, because it highlights the fact that the person in question could be American (usually seen as having been born in the US).