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Quiet disclosure of FBAR

Quiet disclosure of FBAR

Old Feb 8th 2011, 4:30 pm
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Unhappy Quiet disclosure of FBAR

Hello
I'm freaking out about FBAR!
My timeline:
UK citizen married to USC
I got my "green card" stamp in Jan 2009.
I didnt actually "activate" it until July 2009 with a trip to the USA.
I didnt actually MOVE to USA until May 2010.
I had the foresight to file a tax return for 2009. I used my wifes family CPA.
At no time was I told I needed to declare foreign bank accounts (I know FBAR is a seperate thing)
I filed a form 1040 etc but not a 1040 schedule B, which I now see in hindsight would have directed me to file the Form TD F 90-22.1.


I have over $10k in savings still in UK accounts. I had no tax to pay as I took the foreign earned income exclusion for 2009.
reading over the fines and penalties for not filing this peice of paper are horiffic. I see there was an amnestry which has now passed. I was completely unaware and i guess negligent, though not intentionally.

My question is:
Has anyone any experiences of filing a so-called "quiet" disclosure? I'm tempted to send off a TD F 90-22.1 for 2009 and hope it "quietly" ends there.

I have read various posts on here of people getting getting fined 20% of highest balance , $500 per account and other horrors. I have also read someone say they have had no problems and never got fined for filing late. I have read somewhere that CPA's can also get fined for not filling in tax returns correctly (thought that would be really AWKWARD- it seems a lot of CPA's just dont know how to handle foreign tax returns)

All advice and words of assurance appreciated! If you have ever filed quietly, did you include a letter of explanation. What did you say? Did it work out? Did you still get fined?
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Old Feb 8th 2011, 5:14 pm
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Default Re: Quiet disclosure of FBAR

Originally Posted by chopper40 View Post
I got my "green card" stamp in Jan 2009.
I didnt actually "activate" it until July 2009 with a trip to the USA.
I didnt actually MOVE to USA until May 2010.
I had the foresight to file a tax return for 2009.
When you used your immigrant visa in July 2009, you became a Permanent Resident.

It doesn't matter when you "moved" here; your date happened in July 09.

Your foresight was a requirement; as a Permanent Resident, you're required to file a US income tax return. Remember that your date started July 2009.

I bring this up in part because you are going to have another US immigration horizon when your green card expires this summer.

I now return you to FUBAR, er FBAR.
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Old Feb 8th 2011, 5:45 pm
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Default Re: Quiet disclosure of FBAR

I'd like to think as you're only talking of a few years...if you fess up and pay whatever is owed they would be understanding.

As Mo said you have other hurdles to cross with US Immigration...so get your taxes sorted out.
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Old Feb 8th 2011, 5:48 pm
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Default Re: Quiet disclosure of FBAR

Originally Posted by meauxna View Post

I bring this up in part because you are going to have another US immigration horizon when your green card expires this summer.
Hi Meauxna
My Permanent Resident Card is good till 2019. Sorry , I didn't dilute my post too much with info on my immigration status. (Me and wife married > 5years living in UK before applying to move to US)

So if my resident status started in July 2009 should I have filed FBAR in 2009?

Thanks
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Old Feb 8th 2011, 5:49 pm
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Default Re: Quiet disclosure of FBAR

Originally Posted by chopper40 View Post
So if my resident status started in July 2009 should I have filed FBAR in 2009?
That's a good question, actually, because the FBAR is due by June 30th each year, so you couldn't have filed one that was due IN 2009. I think you should have filed one FOR 2009 by June 30 2010.

Have you asked your wife's family's CPA about this? I would have thought he would have been aware of the FBAR requirement. Even TurboTax and H&R Block software asks me if I have overseas accounts and reminds me to file the form.
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Old Feb 8th 2011, 5:49 pm
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Default Re: Quiet disclosure of FBAR

Originally Posted by chopper40 View Post
Hi Meauxna
My Permanent Resident Card is good till 2019. Sorry , I didn't dilute my post too much with info on my immigration status. (Me and wife married > 5years living in UK before applying to move to US)

So if my resident status started in July 2009 should I have filed FBAR in 2009?

Thanks
It should have been filed 2010.
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Old Feb 8th 2011, 6:11 pm
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Default Re: Quiet disclosure of FBAR

Originally Posted by avanutria View Post
I think you should have filed one FOR 2009 by June 30 2010.

Have you asked your wife's family's CPA about this? I would have thought he would have been aware of the FBAR requirement.
Avanutra
I agree, it seems i should have filed. It seems my CPA wasn't aware of it. I'm waiting for him to get back to me. I have researched and read all kinds of tax blogs etc. It seems many CPA's that mainly deal with mom+pop US resident tax returns aren't aware of FBAR, and indeed many tax filers aren't either. There were only 17,000 returns when they had the amnesty last year.

My original question is to seek the experiences of people who filed late, "quietly".

Thanks
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Old Feb 8th 2011, 6:13 pm
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Default Re: Quiet disclosure of FBAR

i filed the 2010 late - purely because i put it to one side and it got buried under something and i didnt find it til after. i just sent it straight in (think we are talking a month or two late tops) with no explanantion and ive heard nothing back.


I doubt you will 'owe' on it - its not that kind of tax - its just to keep a record of foreign monies etc for money laundering and terrorism prevention etc. (unless im completely mistaken).
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Old Feb 8th 2011, 6:17 pm
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Default Re: Quiet disclosure of FBAR

Originally Posted by MsElui View Post
i filed the 2010 late - purely because i put it to one side and it got buried under something and i didnt find it til after. i just sent it straight in (think we are talking a month or two late tops) with no explanantion and ive heard nothing back.


I doubt you will 'owe' on it - its not that kind of tax - its just to keep a record of foreign monies etc for money laundering and terrorism prevention etc. (unless im completely mistaken).
Hi MsElui
Do you mean 2009? I assume the 2010 filing has to be in by June 30th 2011.
I certainly don't owe anything. But there are harsh penalties for filing late.
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Old Feb 8th 2011, 6:17 pm
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Default Re: Quiet disclosure of FBAR

Originally Posted by chopper40 View Post
Hi Meauxna
My Permanent Resident Card is good till 2019. Sorry , I didn't dilute my post too much with info on my immigration status. (Me and wife married > 5years living in UK before applying to move to US)

So if my resident status started in July 2009 should I have filed FBAR in 2009?

Thanks
Right, thanks for that. Don't worry about I-751 then!

If Permanent Residents are required to file FBAR, and you were a PR in 2009... I would say 'yes'.
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Old Feb 8th 2011, 6:19 pm
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Default Re: Quiet disclosure of FBAR

Maybe you should post the link to the thread you're concerned about (or the one I'm guessing you are.. ). It's surprising, but in, what, 10 years of looking at this topic (international marriage & moving) I've only seen it come up that one time.
I wish I had better resources to offer you.
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Old Feb 8th 2011, 6:34 pm
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Default Re: Quiet disclosure of FBAR

We arrived here in 2008 and had, until doing the 2008 taxes, totally missed the FBAR requirements. (Me UKC, wife USC, living in the UK for 11 years prior to the move). Essentially, due to me not liking the IRS approach to life, during that time most of the larger sums were in accounts with my name on it though depending how you calculated the balances on the joint accounts...

However, in the lead up to the move we cashed in various items such as shares so that during the 2007 US tax year there was certainly a need for FBAR reporting. And we hadn't done it.

When submitting the 2008 FBAR paperwork, necessary due to house sale proceeds hitting the account temporarily, we included back-copies for 2007 (and three years back from that) and a polite letter apologising for the oversight.

Anyway, that's our story and so far there's been no comeback.
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Old Feb 8th 2011, 9:10 pm
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Default Re: Quiet disclosure of FBAR

Originally Posted by chopper40 View Post
Avanutra
I agree, it seems i should have filed. It seems my CPA wasn't aware of it. I'm waiting for him to get back to me.
My CPA told me if they fail to have a client send in the FBAR form the fine for them is $5000 a day. Depending on how much you like your CPA you may want to tell him that.
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Old Feb 8th 2011, 10:07 pm
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Default Re: Quiet disclosure of FBAR

Originally Posted by MsElui View Post
i filed the 2010 late - purely because i put it to one side and it got buried under something and i didnt find it til after. i just sent it straight in (think we are talking a month or two late tops) with no explanantion and ive heard nothing back.


I doubt you will 'owe' on it - its not that kind of tax - its just to keep a record of foreign monies etc for money laundering and terrorism prevention etc. (unless im completely mistaken).
i meant the one that was due june 2010.
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Old Feb 8th 2011, 11:29 pm
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Default Re: Quiet disclosure of FBAR

When did this FBAR stuff start, does anyone know? I didn't hear about it at all till a few years ago.
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