Pre-clearance negative experience
 

I flew from Calgary, Canada to Los Angeles today. As you know, when you fly from a Canadian airport, you do pre-clearance in Canada. I have Global Entry membership, and the kiosk were all out of service.

And so I had to see an agent. I’ve given him the Global Entry card, which is associated with my Green Card, alongside my passport. He then tried to process me as a visitor when I told him that I’m a GCH. He gave me a hard time as to why I didn’t give him the permanent resident card as it was more important than the GR card. Then he started to grill me with questions such as who do I work for and whether the employer matched my previous L-1A visa, and where I lived. I told him that the visa was not valid anymore, and he replied “yes, I know“. When asked about where I lived, I just said “Venice”. And then he was like Italy? And I was like no, I am a GCH, it is Venice, California. Eventually he let me go, but I never had such a negative experience since I got my GC. This was a weekend trip in Canada, I was away for 3 nights.

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

Did something change? I always had to use my “GC” on the Global Entry terminals. Dont recall ever using the GE card for much.

He was right that the GC is the most important document for you now traveling back to the US.Lawful Permanent Residents (LPR) of the U.S. must present a Permanent Resident Card ("Green Card", Form I-551), a Reentry Permit(if gone for more than 1 year), or a Returning Resident Visa (if gone for 2 years or more) to reenter the United States.


United States (U.S.) LPRs do not need a passport to enter the U.S. as per 8 CFR 211.1(a), however, they may need a passport to enter another country. Please contact the embassy of the foreign country you will be traveling to for their requirements.
https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Artic...language=en_US

He probably started processing you based on the visa and got pissed having to undo it.

Interesting he asked about the employer, have heard about that for people when they apply to become USC, but not at entry, have you changed jobs or was he just “fishing”?

Did you check your entry record on i94.CBP.gov ?

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

I guess you should have said “Venice, California” right upfront, since that is the normal format in the US if someone asks where you live. I mean, even if I was in New York, if an official asked me where I lived, I’d say “Canton, New York,” not “Canton.”

But the basic problem remains - some officials are power-hungry fools, and everybody sometimes gets out of the wrong side of the bed sometimes.

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

At least you made in. The agent may just have been having a bad day. I used to travel internationally a lot on business and renter to the US was always a concern in my mind. When I became a USC with passport all that became a lot easier yet there’d be times when the border agent would ask a load of questions especially if he could find no stamp in my passport to show where I had been. (I had to have extra pages put in my first passport for the visa stamps and there was absolutely no order to them)

Much of the time it was a simple “Welcome Home”.

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

Why just say Venice? Seems you were both winding each other up.

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

AFAIK there is only one "Venice" in the US, and it's in Florida. The municipality in California is "Venice Beach", so I am inclined to side with the immigration officer and say that a clarifying question was entirely appropriate under the circumstances.

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

What is a GR card?

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

Google thinks otherwise… it has it as a neighborhood, but either way the context is more important… if he had been at LAX the officer likely would not have questioned that… but they preclear for all US flights in Canada… so it is a more valid question in that context, he would assume LA as the L1 employer location based on previous entry stamps… I forget now if you give your boarding pass at pre clearance , I think the you do, so he should have know general area base on US airport like LAX assuming a direct flight.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...36650e4cb.jpeg

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

No need to ram the point home! :rofl:

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

That was more of a jackhammer than a ram…

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

I used Google Maps, and Google only finds Venice in Florida, because Venice, CA was merged with LA in 1926 and no longer exists as a separate municipality.

You apparently used Google to find a Wikipedia page, and I wouldn't bet the price lunch on the details of a Wikipedia page being correct. As you noted it exists but only as a neighborhood, and therefore is not a legal municipality nor part of a standard USPS address. Referring to your neighborhood as if it would be unambiguously understood is quite a rabbit hole to go down in the US.

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

No Google and Google Maps also shows it…

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...6d1f62300.jpeg


Just because USPS does not separate it does not mean it’s not real, on that basis their are no neighborhoods in Manhattan… No Soho, no East Village, etc…

but back to OP thread, I agree that it is not commonly used…

I had similar negative experiences mainly under VW, from either arriving to fast (and disturbing 2 officers “natter” season) and imprecise language… the former of which had me go to secondary only for the next office to question why I was there and send me on my way…

This whole topic is exactly why I got GE ASAP (was not available to L1 in my day) and I used it alone even when traveling with USC wife and children when available.

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

"Real" I would argue means legal entity. Nobody is paying property taxes or applying for a permit to Venice town council.. Neighborhoods can be ephemeral and elastic, and often seem to be dreamt up by realtors or snobs. :rolleyes:

You seem to have at stumbled into the practical matter of giving the level of detail appropriate to your audience. If you're speaking to someone local then neighborhood is fine - in the case you cite, someone living in the five boroughs might be interested in the neighborhood, but I'm fairly sure that someone in, say, Albany, NY would only need to know you live in New York city.

In my case I would commonly tell someone outside the US (who knows I live in the US) that I live in NC; to someone in the US I would typically say that I live in Charlotte (even though I don't); to someone in NC I would say I lived in Podunk (even though I really don't), and only when speaking to someone in Podunk or the county where I live would I give anything more specific.

All that said, when ever dealing with any government agency (IRS, USCIS, police, etc.), or an official thereof, I always give my standard USPS address as it appears on my (Real ID) NC drivers license, despite its inherent flaws.

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

I always chuckle when I see advice here to only answer the question asked, such as "Do you know the time". As someone who for one reason or another has stopped more people than I expect most on here, including at the immigration controls at Heathrow, when someone starts those games the preconceived goodwill with which I approached them ceases. A friendly and pleasant attitude works both ways and makes the day so much more enjoyable, but if you make the job harder to do the longer it takes to do it.

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

Actually, the Municipality is City of Los Angeles. The community name is plain Venice; the actual beach is Venice Beach. The postal address can vary. I live in Los Feliz, but my mailing address is Los Angeles. (BTW, Los Angles mailing addresses will have the ZIP code of 900xx.). Growing up in the San Fernando Valley, I was in the City of Los Angeles but my mailing address was Sherman Oaks.

Here is a link to the municipal borders. FWIW, the borders are related to access to Los Angeles City water and development of San Pedro Harbor.

The DHS border guard may not have been the brightest, but OP strikes me as having an attitude problem. Rule of border crossings is to be excruciatingly polite.

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

As for your abbreviation "GCH" if this is actually what you told the examiner you should have said LPR -- legal permanent resident. GCH could mean you are a Conditional Permanent Resident. See what I'm getting at. As for stating Venice, why didn't you come out and say Venice, California as a GCH can actually be residing in Venice, Italy as a employee and like the examiner mentioned, why didn't you give him your Residency Card instead of your Global Entry Card or at the very least both cards at once.

Were you super annoyed because the terminals were down and you had to stand in line and wait to be examined by an agent?

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

Both sound like a couple of bell ends

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Agreed 100%, and I got that right in a subsequent post on this thread, but was able to go back and correct my first post on the subject. :(

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

Now thinking outside of the box has anybody considered that the USCBP officer thought that being posted to Calgary initially would be a better gig than say San Ysidro or Nogales. Perhaps the officer was born in Arizona or some other State that has very mild winters. He wakes up one morning and checks the weather forecast and sees that with the windchill factor it will be a balmy minus 30 C. He then goes outside to his vehicle to drive to work and lo and behold he had forgotten to plug it in overnight and no it is not an EV. Car won't start so now he needs to either find someone to give him a boost or call a local tow truck that will give him a boost while he shovels the overnight 15cms of snow that fell onto his driveway.

Use the scene from the movie Cool Runnings (Jamaican Bob Sled Team) to see what it is like for a person who is used to a warmer climate arriving in Calgary :lol:

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

Whatever he thought, it is highly unlikely to have involved Celcius or centimeters! :rofl:

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There is a hope some Canadian education rubbed off. Given his behavior though, doubt it.

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

destone has not posted again, maybe he was detained after posting here...

Still his experience could have been worse according to this...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/pre...rder-1.5429662

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

My only negative experience with US customs/immigration was LA. Rude, lazy gits who didn't give a toss, but enjoyed watching any unfortunate fall outs.
I've been taken in to secondary in Seattle and it was professional and courteous. LA was just minutes, but left a sufficiently sour taste that the flight discounts will have to be substation to get me to go through it again.

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

Haha, still around, just had a long week. The officer in question treated me like a foreigner, a tourist, and certainly not someone who calls the US “home”. I probably should have asked him at the end of the exchange: “Officer, are you going to say ‘Welcome Home’?”.

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

I just activated my new Global Reentry Card this morning. Much to my surprise, the renewal process proceeded at light speed. I did the on-line process on Jan 18, approval e-mail three days later. New card received yesterday. Out of professional caution, I read the accompanying instructions on use of the card.

The physical card need ONLY produced at a LAND port of entry on the Canadian or Mexican borders. (Having crossed the border from time to time via ferry before I had global entry, I wonder if that counts as a land border, but I digress).

As a U.S. citizen, at other than a land border, I would be required only to present my passport or passport card. LPR’s as yourself, are required to present their I-551 green card. One does NOT present the Global Entry Card.

Inasmuch as the Global Entry kiosks were down, you were NOT using the global entry procedures. I can’t speak as to the tone of voice used by the border guard, but otherwise you describe a perfectly appropriate set of questions for a border inspection.

Also, you were still on the ground in Calgary Airport, not arriving at LAX, so “welcome home” is premature, no? (BTW, there is case law that inspection is not complete until one leave the immigration/customs enclosure.)

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Congrats on your card renewal! It was not my intention to present the physical Global Entry card. I travel between England and the US every six weeks to see my daughter who resides in England. And so the only reason I presented the physical Global Entry card is that whoever was controlling the Global Entry line at the Calgary Airport would let me enter the Global Entry line only if I showed him the Global Entry physical card. When the Global Entry kiosks are in service I do not need to present either my passport or GC. It just scans my face and that’s it. I traveled between England and the US countless times over the last 10 years and I have never come across a rude officer such as the one encountered in Calgary. Someone made a point earlier on this forum that the officer was probably pissed off that he was stationed in Calgary. That that life he had chosen for himself and should not take it out on customers.

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

By the way, I have gone into the DMV today to update my address to Venice, and as you can see on the picture below, it says “Venice” and not “Los Angeles”:
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...063e77ced.jpeg

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

Venice is part of the City of Los Angeles but L.A. is not the postal address. Just north of Venice is Santa Monica which is its own city. Take a look at Los Angeles City Council District 11 - Pacific Palisades, Venice, Playa Del Rey and LAX. Get south of LAX and you start the cities of El Segundo, Manhattan Beach, Hermosa Beach, Redondo Beach and Pablos Verdes - none of which are in the City of Los Angeles.

My favorite dichotomy between political and post office borders is 90210. That is one of the ZIP codes for Beverly Hills, but the northern part of it is outside of the Beverly Hills city limits and is within the City of Los Angeles. The realtors call it “Post Office” to indicate you may have the mailing address, but not the school district.

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

DMV put “Venice” and not “Los Angeles” on my driving license. When I lived on the 34th St in Manhattan, my license said “New York” and not “Manhattan”.

And so on if I get grilled again by CBP about my address and Venice, I’ll just hand them my new driving license which makes zero mention of “Los Angeles” unlike my Manhattan license did of “New York” back in the day.

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

Manhattan does not issue DL’s neither does New York City, if you had a New York DL, it was issued by the State…. Generally they won’t care about / accept a DL unless it’s an EDL..

https://www.dhs.gov/enhanced-drivers...-what-are-they

You had a bad experience at CBP, that’s not unusual (but also not the norm), normally I would put it down to a bad officer / officer having a bad day… but given your tone here it could have been brought on by your attitude or other factors in your file he sees..

With an attitude you have already set yourself up for failure… just be calm, say/do what your asked (unless it’s unlawful, then ask for a supervisor) and if your response to what is asked is not what they wanted/wrong, say sorry (even if you are not) and provide the information requested.

It’s a fine line, and I know the advice her is only answer what’s asked, but that’s also subjective…

If your asked “do you know what time it is” saying “yes” could come across as evasive, but saying yes, it’s 8:43 and 6 seconds EST” could come across as fresh..

If you are in Canada pre-clearance say… Venice Beach (because he may have heard of that) in California. If you’re at LAX say Venice Beach… just give the appropriate amount of information…

I have had interactions where the officer will only say “right hand” and “look at the camera” and others where he notes how frequently I traveled (back in the day) and we get in to a conversation about how it’s nice to be able to visit my mother for her home cooking (its not, my father is a much better cook) but I just go with it… I also had an employee on a visa who said an office got deep in to questions about a highly technical part of automated trading… turns out he was a coder in his spare time and interested…

What you have to do is understand who you are talking to… and give answers in that context.

Given you now an LPR you have no reason to be evasive… you are both allowed to live here and work for nearly any employer… if you piss them off they can make a note on your file… I saw an interaction like that where a USC was entering without a US passport and the officer said there were notes about what he was told on multiple previous entries…

play the “game” get home and forget about it…

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

BTW, UK Citizens traveling to the U.S. as non-immigrants are eligible for US Global Entry status after clearing a UK background check - see this UK link and this US link. A returning LPR should present their green card. Other than LPR’s, UK Citizens will present their passport.

Based upon OP’s own description, I can see how the Border Guard might have been confused - she was given the wrong documents.

Also, I can easily envision a UK Citizen residing in Venice Italy coming to the US on an ESTA and in possession of Global Entry.

As described by OP, the confusion was cleared up and OP was instructed as to the proper procedure.

————-
On Los Angeles place names, I used to have an office at 6255 Sunset Blvd,90028. Officially, it is a Los Angeles address which is what I used. However, the Post Office is just fine using Hollywood. The bank next door to my old office lists its address as Hollywood. I played with Google Maps and it seems that Los Angeles and Hollywood are used interchangeably.

If I was to ask OP around here where do you live, Venice would be fine. If someone in Paris France was to ask, I think L.A. would be a better answer.

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

However, non LPR/USCs don't get the GE card at all - so wouldn't have that to present. By showing a GE card the CBP officer knows that they are an LPR or USC.

Re: Pre-clearance negative experience
 

Unless that officer had worked a land border he may not even know that… I got GE as soon as I became an LPR, it was not available to L1 then. I had had a an INS PORTPASS - with the weird hand print reader back in 2001/02.

When I got GE they put a blue “CBP” sticker on the top right hand corner of my “Green Card”… and even then most officers did not know what it was, one even tried to take it off. I think I was told it was to show the person letting you come m the lane to to the GE machines… and even they did not know what it was for…